jerryn@pro-europa.cts.com (Jerry Norris) (03/24/90)
> Glen Bredon did (does?) indeed have a shareware product called DOS
MASTER.
I believe that, if you ask Mr. Bredon, he will be more than quick to
tell you that DOS MASTER is not a shareware product.
____________________________________________________________________________
jerryn@pro-europa.cts.com | "What do we do now?"
crash!pro-europa!jerryn | "I don't know, I'm making this
GEnie: Vermithrax | up as I go along!"
___________________________________________________________________________davidbrierley@lynx.northeastern.edu (04/12/90)
I have started to write a mineralogy database to be distributed for
the Apple // to be distributed as shareware (yes, I know the contributions
will not be pouring in). I would appreciate any suggestions or inquiries.
Rather than posting replies here, I would appreciate e-mail being sent to me.
Thank you, in advance.
David R. Brierley
davidbrierley@lynx.northeastern.eduTHINGVOL@LAX.WISC.EDU (01/11/91)
What is Daemon 3.0?
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (01/12/91)
In-Reply-To: message from greyelf@wpi.WPI.EDU >Shareware is a nice idea, but my suggestion to new authors: >Forget shareware. >Go Commercial. Most small developers (hackers) can't afford the expense of going commercial, and there are fewer and fewer commercial marketeers picking up contracts to sell Apple IIxx programs. Shareware is too important to just forget. Everyone keeps complaining that the only market the shareware concept works in is in MS-DOS. I feel there is a reason for that. Most successful MS-DOS shareware packages that I've seen are major development efforts, and usually very high quality packages with complete documentation. Some of these share- ware developers even advertize in major publication to attract new customers. They can because the programs are successful. However, just as in the MS-DOS market, mediocre shareware programs don't attract much attention from Apple users. In you case, with Daemon, I've never seen a copy of it; much less tried it out. I've never seen it on a BBS in the San Diego area and have heard VERY little discussion of it. Maybe the problem you're experiencing is more on the side of marketing and support than in the shareware concept itself. I know your argument is going to be other shareware efforts in the Apple market has fail abysmally as well. Yet, have you seen any shareware programs like PC-Write, ProCOMM Plus, Money Counts, etc. made available for the Apple market? It's applications and utilities of great power, good documentation and good support that people are most interested in purchasing. I pay for what I use. But, like most I'm sure, I don't pay for some- thing I try out a couple times and say "Oh. Neat" then stick in my desk drawer and forget about. And certainly not for something I boot up and say "Oh. Crapware" to. Try developing a program that makes ProTERM look like dung; give it good documentation and aggressive marketing and support, then tell me "Forget shareware." Until I see some outstanding programs bomb in the Apple shareware market, I can't believe it won't work for it. There are several dozen members of the Association of Shareware Professionals that are making a killing. / _______________________________________________ \ / / ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil \ /// <//` / >> \\\`__/_ The opinions expressed here belong to nobody! /,)-^>>_\`, \\\ (Anybody see nobody lately?) (/ \\ /\\\ ----------------------------------------------- // _//\\\\ ((` ((
6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) (01/13/91)
As a followup, Brian Greenstone has made over $4000 w/ Cosmocade in the past few months. Shareware can work.
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (01/13/91)
> As a followup, Brian Greenstone has made over $4000 > w/ Cosmocade in the past few months. Shareware can > work. Wowzers, Inspector Gadget! So about 400 people sent in their shareware donation eh? So I take it this means that Brian and Dave will complete Cosmocade as promised, and hopefully write more awesome shareware games in the future? EVEYONE SUPPORT SHAREWARE!!! Brian T. Tao {taob@pnet91.cts.com} || Computer guru? Someone who got University of Metro Toronto || their computer a couple of weeks Scarberia, ON, MIC 3A8 *B-) || before you did. (Alvin Toffler)
AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET (01/13/91)
Hmmmm... Funny thing -- I've never heard of the Association of Shareware- Professionals. Maybe that's another problem?
llee@gnh-starport.cts.com (Larry Lee) (01/13/91)
=I= pay for shareware. I also have planned to send in donations for certain applications like ShrinkIt GS, and am planning to pay for Sound Smith, WriteIT, and a few other programs. I've already paid up for everything I have from Pangea software. The PROBLEM with going commercial is that it is EXPENSIVE. I'm sure that the number of people out there who pay for shareware number more than one. | ProLine.: llee@gnh-starport | The other day a dog peed on me. | | UUCP....: crash!gnh-starport!llee | A bad sign. | | InterNet: llee@gnh-starport.cts.com | | | AO .....: Shirley you can't be serious! | - H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) |
dcw@lcs.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) (01/13/91)
In article <m0iuzQY-00007lC@jartel.info.com> llee@gnh-starport.cts.com (Larry Lee) writes: >=I= pay for shareware. Glad to hear it. You're in the minority. >I'm sure that the number of people out there who pay for shareware number more >than one. Yeah, they number about ten. Or a hundred. For example, Z-Link has been on the shareware market since the end of 87 (I started it in mid-86). Once I posted it, it made its way onto hundreds of bulletin boards around the WORLD. It got its way onto GEnie, and approximately 4 months after I had first released it, at least 100 people had downloaded it from GEnie. NOT ONE GEnie PERSON PAID FOR IT (actually, 2 did, but they were interent customers who happen to have GEnie accounts too). In fact, I have record of 125 people owning it at all. Of those 125, 65 or 70 people paid anything at all, ($1 or $2 for return postage) and about 50 paid the $25 fee I ask for. That's pathetic. It's because of this miserable return on my investment in time and money that further development of Z-Link has all but stopped completely. Now, I tell people, you wanna make a couple of bucks? Write a neato program and distribute it as shareware. You wanna make a living? Get a real job. -- Dave Whitney Computer Science MIT 1990 | I wrote Z-Link and BinSCII. Send me bug dcw@lcs.mit.edu dcw@mit.edu | reports. I still need a job. Send me offers. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" --Binky (aka Matt Groening)
marekp@pnet91.cts.com (Marek Pawlowski) (01/14/91)
I could bitch about how Shareware has been treating me (not well), but let me
tell you something else. People look for more bang for their buck in this
time of economic repression. Z-Link is decent. But for 2 or 3 times the
money, you can get ProTERM, which outranks Z-Link in many ways.
Improve your product, and bring the price down. Don't do the mistake that was
done in the 20's which lead to the depression. If something wasn't selling,
they brought the price UP, and people couldn't afford it, so they were loosing
more sales. If they had brought the prices doen to a wholesale (or
loss-leader) price, the depression wouldn't have come. I don't want to make a
course in economics here, but do you get my point?
Look at it this way. You can sell it commerically, have it pirated by the
first able person, and make no more money!
/* Marek Pawlowski, marekp@{generic|pnet91|bkj386|torag|aunix}.uucp [CONT] */
/* {albert|wookumz|apple-gunkies|pogo|churchy|geech|spiff|mole}.ai.mit.edu */
/* President, Intelligent Twist Software, 250 Harding Blvd, PO BOX 32017 */
/* Richmond Hill, Ontario, L4C 9M7, CANADA. An ideal route is as follows: */
/* { Ph: (416) 884-4501 4-8pm EDT } generic!pnet91!marekp@zoo.toronto.edu */bill@braille.uwo.ca (W.B. Carss (519) 438-0344) (01/15/91)
In article <91012.171403AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET> AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET writes: >Hmmmm... Funny thing -- I've never heard of the Association of Shareware- >Professionals. Maybe that's another problem? Could someone drop me a line with their address? Thanks Bill Carss bill@braille.uwo.ca
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (01/16/91)
>>Hmmmm... Funny thing -- I've never heard of the Association of Shareware- >>Professionals. Maybe that's another problem? > > >Could someone drop me a line with their address? > >Thanks > >Bill Carss I don't have the address of the ASP directly, but would the addresses of a couple o' members work? I'm sure they can help you. J.P. Software P.O.Box 1470 E. Arlington, MA 02174 Ph# (617) 646-3975 (Publisher of "4DOS", an MS-DOS Command.COM replacement) Iram J. Weinstein XD Systems 1014 Shpman Lane McLean, VA 22101 (Publisher of "4EDIT") Oh, just found an ASP Ombudsman address: ASP Ombudsman P.O.Box 5786 Bellevue, WA 98006 or CompuServe message via easyplex to ASP Ombudsman 70007,3536 Hope that helps. :) / _______________________________________________ \ / / ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil \ /// <//` / >> \\\`__/_ The opinions expressed here belong to nobody! /,)-^>>_\`, \\\ (Anybody see nobody lately?) (/ \\ /\\\ ----------------------------------------------- // _//\\\\ ((` ((
llee@gnh-starport.cts.com (Larry Lee) (01/17/91)
Brian Greenstone made over $4,000? I hope that means he'll stick with the GS for a little longer, then? | ProLine.: llee@gnh-starport | Millions long for immortality who | | UUCP....: crash!gnh-starport!llee | don't know what to do on a rainy | | InterNet: llee@gnh-starport.cts.com | Sunday afternoon. | | AO .....: Watch this space! | -- Susan Ertz |
dcw@lcs.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) (01/29/91)
In article <380@generic.UUCP> marekp@pnet91.cts.com (Marek Pawlowski) writes: >I could bitch about how Shareware has been treating me (not well), but let me >tell you something else. People look for more bang for their buck in this >time of economic repression. Z-Link is decent. But for 2 or 3 times the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Which is all it's supposed to be. I wrote it because I needed it. I figured others would get some use out of it too. >money, you can get ProTERM, which outranks Z-Link in many ways. Note that 2-3 times part. I mean, buy what you need, but remember that suitable (and much cheaper) products exist. On the other hand, pay for what you use. Software doesn't grow on trees, you know. >Improve your product, and bring the price down. I've done the first part w/o doing the second. I figure that $25 is a nice price for what Z-Link does. If people can't live with that, then I ask you to stop using Z-Link and *buy* something else. If Z-Link does suit you, then I ask you to pay for it. Most people will find that it's not a major economic strain... -- Dave Whitney Computer Science MIT 1990 | I wrote Z-Link and BinSCII. Send me bug dcw@lcs.mit.edu dcw@mit.edu | reports. I still need a job. Send me offers. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" --Binky (aka Matt Groening)
marekp@pnet91.cts.com (Marek Pawlowski) (01/29/91)
>In article <380@generic.UUCP> marekp@pnet91.cts.com (Marek Pawlowski) writes: >>I could bitch about how Shareware has been treating me (not well), but let me >>tell you something else. People look for more bang for their buck in this >>time of economic repression. Z-Link is decent. But for 2 or 3 times the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Which is all it's supposed to be. I wrote it because I needed it. I >figured others would get some use out of it too. Agreed. Now if you charged shareware for BINSCII.. >>money, you can get ProTERM, which outranks Z-Link in many ways. > >Note that 2-3 times part. I mean, buy what you need, but remember that >suitable (and much cheaper) products exist. On the other hand, pay for >what you use. Software doesn't grow on trees, you know. I'm sure there are people out there who would LOVE to help out upgrading Z-Link. Adding protocols, and making it more and more like ProTERM, with more to offer. I'd be one of them. I'd pay $25 for a Z-Link that has more or the same amount of options to offer than ProTERM. That's when a hack turns in to profit. >>Improve your product, and bring the price down. > >I've done the first part w/o doing the second. I figure that $25 is a >nice price for what Z-Link does. If people can't live with that, then >I ask you to stop using Z-Link and *buy* something else. If Z-Link >does suit you, then I ask you to pay for it. Most people will find >that it's not a major economic strain... Of course. It's up to the author in the end. How much to "charge", that is. I'm happy with my ProTERM (which I bought), others are not. It's hard to put a value on time. >-- >Dave Whitney >Computer Science MIT 1990 | I wrote Z-Link and BinSCII. Send me bug >dcw@lcs.mit.edu dcw@mit.edu | reports. I still need a job. Send me offers. >"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" --Binky (aka Matt Groening) Spiff up Z-Link. Get a working Zmodem running on it (I got specs), Y and X modem as well (all the different variants), plus Kermit! Add a very nice and functional vt100, and KILL the competition. I'm behind you all the way. Make some money off Z-Link, and be a model for the rest of the world. /* Marek Pawlowski, marekp@{generic|pnet91|bkj386|torag|aunix}.uucp [CONT] */ /* {albert|wookumz|apple-gunkies|pogo|churchy|geech|spiff|mole}.ai.mit.edu */ /* President, Intelligent Twist Software, 250 Harding Blvd, PO BOX 32017 */ /* Richmond Hill, Ontario, L4C 9M7, CANADA. An ideal route is as follows: */ /* { Ph: (416) 884-4501 4-8pm EDT } generic!pnet91!marekp@zoo.toronto.edu */