unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (01/23/91)
In article <1991Jan23.070038.2177@ims.alaska.edu> asslk@acad2.anc.alaska.edu writes: >Oh man, nothing personal, but get prosel 16! For one thing, it beats the >tar out of that finder thing. It has every utility that one could think of >and yes, it can reorder directories. It will be the best $54 you spent >on utility software. And, yes, I did say buy. It is a product that deserves >to be supported. I think that for general file utilities, Wings "beats the tar out of" ProSEL 16! There's no reorder directory command that I can remember (Oh wait, there's alphebetizing of directories, and maybe there's also moving files around directories).... It's the best launcher/general file utility program I've seen though... The actual file copying/moving utility is almost as good as the Finder except it for some reason does ONE FILE at a time, not as many as memory allows like the Finder does. (That's my biggest compliment to the Finder, that it does file copying faster than anything else) -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ \WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. /
knauer@tiberius.cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase) (01/24/91)
In article <11434@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > >In article <1991Jan23.070038.2177@ims.alaska.edu> asslk@acad2.anc.alaska.edu writes: >>Oh man, nothing personal, but get prosel 16! For one thing, it beats the >>tar out of that finder thing. It has every utility that one could think of >>and yes, it can reorder directories. It will be the best $54 you spent >>on utility software. And, yes, I did say buy. It is a product that deserves >>to be supported. Yup, very true. Except you should buy it from Bredon himself both to maximize the profit he gets and to be sure you're on the list for updates. > I think that for general file utilities, Wings "beats the tar out of" >ProSEL 16! There's no reorder directory command that I can remember (Oh >wait, there's alphebetizing of directories, and maybe there's also moving >files around directories).... Bzzzzzt. Wrong answer, but thanks for playing. :) I'd look into the late- -night 800-number ads for memory improvement courses. :) There is sorting by name, type, date, etc. as well as moving of individual files. > [Wings is] the best launcher/general file utility program I've seen though. I can't comment on this since I haven't seen Wings yet. But, does it allow you to: launch files at fast or slow speed? launch files with a memory purge beforehand? launch files with/without it staying in memory (for speed/space tradeoffs)? pass startup strings to the apps you launch? use the mouse, arrow keys, or first letter of the name to move around? ...ad infinitum. Other than the launcher, does it have: file utilities including the usual copy, delete, etc. plus undelete, format, wipe, move, dump, disassemble, etc.? a volume optimizer? an automatic "salvage what you can even though the disk is trashed"? a super-smart, fast volume backup? an appointment book/etc.? a fully programmable RPN claculator, programs save-able to disk? a find-file? a system-info? or the several other things I'm forgetting since I'm not at home? :) And if Wings has any or all of these, are they kept on disk and brought in as needed? Can you configure any comination of them out of the executable to save space on 3.5" disks? Do they work in text mode OR a nifty (and FAST) super-hi-res mode? I could go on and on. ProSel 16 is the closest thing to Norton Utilities for the GS, except in many cases it's either faster or offers a superset of NU's features. > The actual file copying/moving utility is almost as good as the >Finder except it for some reason does ONE FILE at a time, not as many >as memory allows like the Finder does. (That's my biggest compliment to >the Finder, that it does file copying faster than anything else) Maybe you're thinking of cat.doctor, a utility that comes with ProSel 8 for the //e (which you get with purchase of ProSel 16). Once, the Finder was the only program to use sessions, but very shortly thereafter ProSel began using them, and now they're common fare. In fact, I'd bet ProSel is faster since it's coded in assembly and Bredon is an excellent programmer. In short, I'll look at Wings this weekend, but I would bet money even before seeing it that ProSel blows it away. Of all the Apple II software I've bought, it's far and away the best value. (Well, I did get a lot of use out of AppleWriter 1.0, so let's call it tied for best value. :) Oh, and did I mention that Bredon constantly adds features, and upgrades are available through mail or on-line with CI$ and GEnie, etc.? Rob Knauerhase -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Robert C. Knauerhase "Since the day the Apple III (RIP) was introduced U of Ill @ Urbana-Champaign in 1980, the 'experts' have been saying the Apple Dept. of Computer Science II is a dead machine. If the Apple III couldn't knauer@cs.uiuc.edu kill it, the Lisa (RIP) or the PC Jr. (RIP) or the rck@ces.cwru.edu 128K Mac (RIP) would. Some people never learn." knauer@scivax.lerc.nasa.gov -- Tom Weishaar
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (01/24/91)
In article <1991Jan23.224738.17137@julius.cs.uiuc.edu> knauer@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase) writes: >In article <11434@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >> I think that for general file utilities, Wings "beats the tar out of" >>ProSEL 16! There's no reorder directory command that I can remember (Oh >>wait, there's alphebetizing of directories, and maybe there's also moving >>files around directories).... > > There is sorting by name, type, date, etc. as well as moving of >individual files. I was talking about WINGS. From what you say later in this article, you've never seen Wings. From the way you've worded a few of your comments, I am presuming you're thinking I'm talking about ProSEL when I'm really talking about Wings! >I can't comment on this since I haven't seen Wings yet. But, does it allow Duhh, you just said it right there. (Haven't seen Wings) >Other than the launcher, does it have: > file utilities including the usual copy, delete, etc. plus undelete, > format, wipe, move, dump, disassemble, etc.? I don't know about dump and disassemble (and doubt it), but the other ones, yes it has them. > a volume optimizer? No, Wings is a launcher and general file utility program. There's another program by Vitesse for volume optimizing. > an automatic "salvage what you can even though the disk is trashed"? > a super-smart, fast volume backup? Same as my last answer. "Salvation" is what you're looking for for disk backup/recovery, but I don't know about its capabilities. > an appointment book/etc.? > a fully programmable RPN claculator, programs save-able to disk? You ARE kidding about these two right?! I think you're totally unfamiliar with what Wings is. Not an insult, but the truth. > a find-file? > a system-info? Uhh... I think it has those two. >to save space on 3.5" disks? Do they work in text mode OR a nifty (and FAST) >super-hi-res mode? It's in Super Hires.. And it's relatively fast. >I could go on and on. ProSel 16 is the closest thing to Norton Utilities >for the GS, except in many cases it's either faster or offers a superset of >NU's features. Don't EVEN compare Apple based programs to Norton Utilities. (With the "originator" being Norton Utilities). Norton Utilities is just a copy of Copy II Plus! (with a ton of extensions) >>Finder except it for some reason does ONE FILE at a time, not as many >>as memory allows like the Finder does. (That's my biggest compliment to >>the Finder, that it does file copying faster than anything else) > >Maybe you're thinking of cat.doctor, a utility that comes with ProSel 8 for >the //e (which you get with purchase of ProSel 16). Once, the Finder was the >only program to use sessions, but very shortly thereafter ProSel began using >them, and now they're common fare. In fact, I'd bet ProSel is faster since >it's coded in assembly and Bredon is an excellent programmer. I was talking about WINGS, not ProSEL! >In short, I'll look at Wings this weekend, but I would bet money even before >seeing it that ProSel blows it away. Of all the Apple II software I've Nope, I just like Wings better. Of course for some of the features ProSEL is worth it, but not for the general everyday file utilities and launching capabilities. -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ \WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. /
WAXMONRW@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (01/25/91)
To muddy the waters a little more about the relevant virtues of Wings and Prosel16, you might take a look at UtilityWorks and UtilityWorks Launcher. They are a pair of shareware programs written by George R. Wilde. The launcher program is $10 and UtilityWorks itself is $20; both together are $25. George is not on Internet but he is on Genie, Compuserve, Delphi and a no. of E-Mail networks. As to the virtue of each, it is a matter of experience, taste and preference. I have Prosel16 (I paid for it) and UtilityWorks and UtilityWorks Launcher; I do not have nor have I seen Wings. I prefer Wilde's programs over Prosel16. I am not a power user, but I do find that UtilityWorks/Launcher has just about everything I need and I prefer its interface to that of Prosel's. If you have access to one of the above networks, take a look at UtilityWorks, it is a fine program and it is well supported. Ray Waxmonksy (waxmonrw@snybufva) As has been said before, "my opinion".
gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) (01/25/91)
I hate to say this, Mr. Unknown, but you're pretty confused about this whole thing. Rob K. was pointing out things that ProSEL had, and asking if Wings had 'em. You stated a while ago the following: >> I think that for general file utilities, Wings "beats the tar out of" >>ProSEL 16! There's no reorder directory command that I can remember (Oh >>wait, there's alphebetizing of directories, and maybe there's also moving >>files around directories).... Well, it sounds to me like you're saying that ProSEL doesn't have these things. ProSEL DOES. You also said this to Rob's remark: >>I can't comment on this since I haven't seen Wings yet. But, does it allow > > Duhh, you just said it right there. (Haven't seen Wings) Rob wasn't saying ANYTHING about Wings. He was pointing out things that ProSEL does, and asking if Wings had them since he didn't know. Read what he said: "I can't comment on this..." Don't jump all over him. He wasn't putting down Wings, he was praising ProSEL. Another point: When you buy ProSEL ($60 I think), you get all the functionality of all four or five Vitesse utils, which are at least $40 each. Sounds like ProSEL's the most cost effective of the two. But paging through your post, I see more places where you were totally confused: >> an appointment book/etc.? >> a fully programmable RPN claculator, programs save-able to disk? > You ARE kidding about these two right?! I think you're totally >unfamiliar with what Wings is. Not an insult, but the truth. Rob is pointing out things that ProSEL CAN do. ProSEL has an appointment calendar CDA, and a fully programmable RPN calculator whichc can graph functions, plus a hell of a lot of other things. It'll even access an FPE directly for better speed if you have one. Also, you commented on Norton utils... Norton was writing utils a long time ago, they've developed into something you COULD compare to Copy ][+, but I wouldn't. Personally, I think Copy ][+ is a piece of crap... > Nope, I just like Wings better. Of course for some of the >features ProSEL is worth it, but not for the general everyday file utilities >and launching capabilities. ProSEL's not worth it for the general everyday file utils and launching capabilities? Let me ask you this: Have you ever SEEN ProSEL? You are totally off-base with this comment. I've been using ProSEL ever since it was a little 8-bit program launcher bundled with Cat Doctor, and since then, it's been the best there is when it comes to file utils and launching. It's developed quite a lot over the years, and I don't think anything else can even compare to it. Glen has free updates available almost every other week. He just recently added a really nice text editor. Does Wings have one? Get a grip on reality before you start slamming software you know nothing about... -Greg T.
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (01/25/91)
In article <MbbmyFW00WB6ECK8EB@andrew.cmu.edu> gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) writes: > You also said this to Rob's remark: > >>>I can't comment on this since I haven't seen Wings yet. But, does it allow >> >> Duhh, you just said it right there. (Haven't seen Wings) He said it right there that he HADN'T SEEN WINGS. that's all I was commenting on here. > Another point: When you buy ProSEL ($60 I think), you get all the >functionality of all four or five Vitesse utils, which are at least >$40 each. Sounds like ProSEL's the most cost effective of the two. Maybe cost effetive, but cost effectiveness certainly isn't the criteria people use for everything. A Yugo will get you around where you want to go, and is more cost effective than a Lambourghini Countach. But I'd prefer a Lambourghini Countach.. (One of my goals in life.. By the time I'm 40, to have a Lambourghini Countach.. -maybe- a Diablo..) > >>> an appointment book/etc.? >>> a fully programmable RPN claculator, programs save-able to disk? >> You ARE kidding about these two right?! I think you're totally >>unfamiliar with what Wings is. Not an insult, but the truth. > > Rob is pointing out things that ProSEL CAN do. ProSEL has an I was just saying that Wings is a file utility program/launcher.. > Also, you commented on Norton utils... Norton was writing utils a >long time ago, they've developed into something you COULD compare to >Copy ][+, but I wouldn't. Personally, I think Copy ][+ is a piece of >crap... Copy II Plus came out way before Norton Utilities, that was my point... And I think if Copy II Plus unfortunately didn't have the bug that it has (wrecks files sometimes), I'd be using it now. 9.0 has that bug I mean, not previous versions. > ProSEL's not worth it for the general everyday file utils and >launching capabilities? Let me ask you this: Have you ever SEEN >ProSEL? You are totally off-base with this comment. I've been using YES, I HAVE SEEN PROSEL. I use it on my most-used disk, ProTERM. I use it on other disks too... I still think Wing beats it. >ProSEL ever since it was a little 8-bit program launcher bundled with >Cat Doctor, and since then, it's been the best there is when it comes >to file utils and launching. It's developed quite a lot over the >years, and I don't think anything else can even compare to it. Glen >has free updates available almost every other week. He just recently >added a really nice text editor. Does Wings have one? Yes, Wings has a very good editor. Graphical editor that's fairly fast compared to some. > Get a grip on reality before you start slamming software you know >nothing about... It's not something I know nothing about.. I interpreted a few things incorrectly in the original post that I replied to and YOU interpreted things incorrectly in my reply! -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ \WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. /
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (01/25/91)
From knauer@tiberius.cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase): > I could go on and on. ProSel 16 is the closest thing to Norton Utilities > for the GS, except in many cases it's either faster or offers a superset > of NU's features. It's amazing what Glen can do with 8 inches worth of assembly source code! :) Have you found any undocumented features or "Easter Eggs" in Prosel-16 so far? I discovered a couple this past week. You know about the OA shortcuts for Utilities, Info Desk, File Finder, etc., right? Try hitting OA-* and OA-Tab. I believe you need to set Preferences so that Prosel doesn't require that you type Return after the OA command. OA-* brings up a real, live, graphic desktop with Apple, File and Edit menus. OA-Tab shuts off the SHR text temporarily. Zap and Utilities work A LOT faster this way. A couple of nice touces. > Oh, and did I mention that Bredon constantly adds features, and upgrades > are available through mail or on-line with CI$ and GEnie, etc.? FYI, Prosel-16 is now at version 8.64... (I can hardly keep up with this guy's updates!!!) Brian T. Tao {taob@pnet91.cts.com} || Computer guru? Someone who got University of Metro Toronto || their computer a couple of weeks Scarberia, ON, MIC 3A8 *B-) || before you did. (Alvin Toffler)
ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) (01/25/91)
In article <CCFD6340DE1F402C6C@snybufva.bitnet> WAXMONRW@SNYBUFVA.BITNET writes: >To muddy the waters a little more about the relevant virtues of Wings and >Prosel16, you might take a look at UtilityWorks and UtilityWorks Launcher. >They are a pair of shareware programs written by George R. Wilde. The >launcher program is $10 and UtilityWorks itself is $20; both together are >$25. George is not on Internet but he is on Genie, Compuserve, Delphi and >a no. of E-Mail networks. > >As to the virtue of each, it is a matter of experience, taste and >preference. I have Prosel16 (I paid for it) and UtilityWorks and UtilityWorks >Launcher; I do not have nor have I seen Wings. I prefer Wilde's programs >over Prosel16. > >I am not a power user, but I do find that UtilityWorks/Launcher has just >about everything I need and I prefer its interface to that of Prosel's. > >If you have access to one of the above networks, take a look at UtilityWorks, >it is a fine program and it is well supported. > >Ray Waxmonksy (waxmonrw@snybufva) > >As has been said before, "my opinion". I've seen an old version of UtilityWorks (I think it was 0.9 or 0.7), and although it does have some very nice functions, the interface _REALLY_ bugs me. It doesn't use the Standard File toolset to get filenames, and although there isn't anything wrong with that, certain things should be included in his custom dialog boxes. For example, double clicking a file will not select it, and it won't open folders either. Since I'm not much of a mouse user, I always double click or use the keyboard to do my selections. The Tab key won't change devices, and if I recall correctly, Return won't accept the file either. You have to click on a button to do that. Frankly, it seems that the only reason he used custom dialog boxes was to include the filetype next to the filename. Well, that's my opinion... -- David Huang | Internet: ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "My ganglion is stuck in UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!ifar355 | a piece of chewing gum!" America Online: DrWho29 |
ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) (01/25/91)
In article <MbbmyFW00WB6ECK8EB@andrew.cmu.edu> gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) writes: Since I haven't seen Prosel or Wings, much of the stuff has been deleted. However, I have seen Norton and Copy II+... > Also, you commented on Norton utils... Norton was writing utils a >long time ago, they've developed into something you COULD compare to >Copy ][+, but I wouldn't. Personally, I think Copy ][+ is a piece of >crap... True, Norton was writing utils a long time ago, but Copy II+ was written a long time ago too... Copy II+ was up to version 5 in 1985, and I've seen v.3 point something a few years before that. According to this ad in the August '85 Nibble, Copy II+ was originally written in 1981. I think the IBM PC just came out at that time, so Copy II+ is older than NU. I do agree with you that Copy II+ isn't really that great, but I've seen reviews of Prosel (and I'm thinking of buying it very soon) and it seems to be much better than NU. > -Greg T. -- David Huang | Internet: ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "My ganglion is stuck in UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!ifar355 | a piece of chewing gum!" America Online: DrWho29 |
knauer@tiberius.cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase) (01/25/91)
In article <11518@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >In article <MbbmyFW00WB6ECK8EB@andrew.cmu.edu> gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) writes: >> You also said this to Rob's remark: >> >>>>I can't comment on this since I haven't seen Wings yet. But, does it allow >>> >>> Duhh, you just said it right there. (Haven't seen Wings) > He said it right there that he HADN'T SEEN WINGS. that's all I was >commenting on here. FOR THE RECORD: Gregory Thompson is correct -- I was extolling ProSel's merits and allowing you (the Wings expert) to make the comparison. Unknown (for some unknown reason :) badly misinterpreted my post. >> Another point: When you buy ProSEL ($60 I think), you get all the >>functionality of all four or five Vitesse utils, which are at least >>$40 each. Sounds like ProSEL's the most cost effective of the two. > Maybe cost effetive, but cost effectiveness certainly isn't >the criteria people use for everything. A Yugo will get you around where >you want to go, and is more cost effective than a Lambourghini Countach. By the feature list I listed, it seems ProSel has the most horsepower for the least capital outlay; sort of like a $50,000 Corvette that zings past the Countach... :) And you don't have to buy the parts separately. >>>> an appointment book/etc.? >>>> a fully programmable RPN claculator, programs save-able to disk? >>> You ARE kidding about these two right?! I think you're totally >>>unfamiliar with what Wings is. Not an insult, but the truth. >> >> Rob is pointing out things that ProSEL CAN do. ProSEL has an Good example of why you should reread a post before you reply. >> ProSEL's not worth it for the general everyday file utils and >>launching capabilities? Let me ask you this: Have you ever SEEN >>ProSEL? You are totally off-base with this comment. I've been using > YES, I HAVE SEEN PROSEL. I use it on my most-used disk, >ProTERM. I use it on other disks too... I still think Wing beats it. Every man gets his opinion, no matter how wrong it may be. :) >> Get a grip on reality before you start slamming software you know >>nothing about... > It's not something I know nothing about.. I interpreted a few >things incorrectly in the original post that I replied to and YOU >interpreted things incorrectly in my reply! Enough of this. My original post sang the virtues of ProSel, and since I haven't heard amazing things about Wings (and Unknown hasn't answered that list of questions about its features :), I'm convinced it's the superior package. So everyone buy ProSel, and let's stop this thread. Or better yet send Tim Meekins the shareware fee for ZLaunch and be done with it. Rob Knauerhase -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Robert C. Knauerhase "Since the day the Apple III (RIP) was introduced U of Ill @ Urbana-Champaign in 1980, the 'experts' have been saying the Apple Dept. of Computer Science II is a dead machine. If the Apple III couldn't knauer@cs.uiuc.edu kill it, the Lisa (RIP) or the PC Jr. (RIP) or the rck@ces.cwru.edu 128K Mac (RIP) would. Some people never learn." knauer@scivax.lerc.nasa.gov -- Tom Weishaar
asslk@acad2.anc.alaska.edu (Kingry Shane L) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan25.052138.27000@julius.cs.uiuc.edu>, knauer@tiberius.cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase) writes... >In article <11518@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >>In article <MbbmyFW00WB6ECK8EB@andrew.cmu.edu> gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) writes: >>>ProSEL? You are totally off-base with this comment. I've been using >> YES, I HAVE SEEN PROSEL. I use it on my most-used disk, >>ProTERM. I use it on other disks too... I still think Wing beats it. Excuse me, you have ProSel and GS/OS on several disks? That it itself takes up way over half the disk. Also, if you use it on your most used disk, and you like wings better, then I would think there is something wrong. After all, if you like wings better?! Also, ProTERM is a P8 program; you are implying that you don't have an HD, so why are you even booting into GS/OS to start with? That is very odd. > > >Enough of this. My original post sang the virtues of ProSel, and since >I haven't heard amazing things about Wings (and Unknown hasn't answered that >list of questions about its features :), I'm convinced it's the superior >package. > I would have to agree here. Both in price and quality. Let it be done. ------------------ SK
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (01/26/91)
In article <1991Jan25.091959.8601@ims.alaska.edu> asslk@acad2.anc.alaska.edu writes: First, a break for a primal scream.. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH! People keep misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not the most eloquent speaker around, but I think I say what I mean (usually) and mean what I say. (Unfortunately, other people are thinking I'm saying/meaning something else.. I do misspeak occassionally also) And now, back to our regularly scheduled program.. >Excuse me, you have ProSel and GS/OS on several disks? That it itself takes >up way over half the disk. Also, if you use it on your most used disk, and >you like wings better, then I would think there is something wrong. After >all, if you like wings better?! Also, ProTERM is a P8 program; you are >implying that you don't have an HD, so why are you even booting into >GS/OS to start with? That is very odd. You're misinterpreting me. I use ProSEL on my most used disk (ProTERM), because ProTERM is an 8 bit program. Unfortunately, without a hard drive, it's too big of a pain to boot into GS/OS (and Wings).. {Hopefully I'll have a hard drive soon after the goddamned thing burned up when I hooked it up originally.. it apparently wasn't anything I did so it's being fixed under warranty} So repeating myself, I boot into ProSEL because it's probably the best thing so far for ProDOS 8, and since I don't need GS/OS booted, I don't boot into Wings.. I probably will with a hard drive though, I dunno... Depends on how long it takes to boot.. -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ \WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. /
swiers@plains.NoDak.edu (Mike Swiers ) (01/26/91)
I didn't want to copy all the "he said that he said that he said" stuffs, but I would like to know if we are comparing ProSel-8 (yuck!) to Wingz (never seen it)or ProSel-16 (AWESOME program) to Wingz (doesn't impress me so far). Is that the case here? Just wondering... Mike
gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) (01/26/91)
Well, I think I just found the main source of our problems and misunderstandings... unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > You're misinterpreting me. I use ProSEL on my most used disk (ProTERM), > because ProTERM is an 8 bit program. Unfortunately, without a hard drive, > it's too big of a pain to boot into GS/OS (and Wings).. {Hopefully I'll have > a hard drive soon after the goddamned thing burned up when I hooked it up > originally.. it apparently wasn't anything I did so it's being fixed under > warranty} > So repeating myself, I boot into ProSEL because it's probably the > best thing so far for ProDOS 8, and since I don't need GS/OS booted, I > don't boot into Wings.. There ya go. You're using ProSEL 8... I'm 99% sure that the rest of us are talking about ProSEL 16. ProSEL 8 is currently at version 4.0, and hasn't changed in quite a while. ProSEL 16, on the other hand, is at version 8.something. Glen updates it all the time. All the features that were were mentioning were for ProSEL 16. ProSEL 8 has a lot of the features in the form of external programs, but 16 has 'em built in. Anyway, 16 is a lot more robust than 8. If all you've seen is 8, then you really haven't seen what ProSEL 16 can do. I'm not trying to insult you, or start a war, or anything... I think we can all agree that everybody misinterpreted everyone else's comments. I still prefer ProSEL 16 over Wings, but to each his own eh? > -- > /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ > \WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. \ > / -Greg T.
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (01/26/91)
In article <sbcDjj_00WB2EJTupI@andrew.cmu.edu> gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) writes: > > Well, I think I just found the main source of our problems and >misunderstandings... Nope, not quite.. You make a correct observation, but I'm lumping both ProSELs together, because they both have many of the same functions.. (Launcher, Disk recover, etc.) >unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >> So repeating myself, I boot into ProSEL because it's probably the >> best thing so far for ProDOS 8, and since I don't need GS/OS booted, I >> don't boot into Wings.. > > There ya go. You're using ProSEL 8... I'm 99% sure that the rest >of us are talking about ProSEL 16. ProSEL 8 is currently at version Well, as I said, I sort of consider both of them simultaneously (the ProSELs).. And yes, I HAVE used both of them fairly extensively... (ProSEL 8 much more than 16 though). Larry Virden wanted a review of Wings (which he repeatedly called "Wingz" in a post... "Wingz" is some IBM and/or Mac productivity programs of somesuch {I forget if it's a spreadsheet or database or what} I will give a more extensive review of Wings soon, but Wings is, in short, a desktop version of ProSEL... Launching buttons like ProSEL, file utilities, etc... Word processor/editor... Lots more... I don't always like desktop versions of programs over text versions, though... I use the fact that the GS has a text mode in favor of it all the time.. (in comparison to the Mac, Amiga, and ST's not having one) I think it'd be DAMN hard to beat ProTERM in a desktop version.. If someone does it, I'd surely buy the program though... A desktop version of X (does the X protocol work over modems or only directly over Ethernet or somesuch?), or even a GS equivalent of the -damn cool- thing Xenix has... You just type ALT-Function key, and you go to another screen. Instantaneously, and the other screen is still running. It's VERY useful.. Then you can have an ftp going in one screen, a compile in another screen (although those don't take long cuz the 386s we use for graphics are damn fast), an rlogin (to B, the fun machine!) in another, etc... It's cool.. and I really wish I could do it from home on my GS.. EITHER in text mode or in actual graphical windows... It'd be faster in text, so I'd probably prefer that, unless the scrolling, etc. could be made acceptably fast, like it is in Orca C's editor... {Ohwell, that should probably have been a few separate paragraphs, but I'm too lazy} -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ \WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. /
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (01/29/91)
In-Reply-To: message from gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu [...snip] >to file utils and launching. It's developed quite a lot over the >years, and I don't think anything else can even compare to it. Glen >has free updates available almost every other week. He just recently >added a really nice text editor. Does Wings have one? Uh... Yup! Wings has a very nice text editor that is FAR easier to use than the one found in ProSel. GUI, mouse, pull down menus, and all that. The text editor is the ONLY minus I see in ProSel though. You can't beat it's general price/performance (or performance on its own right) with a stick. I only wish Glen would get a grip on the CUI (common user interface, nearly all the MS-DOS developers are switching to it. Very similar to Apple's Mac interface we're all so familiar with). The main feature Glen Bredon is missing in most of the modules of ProSel (that could really stand to benefit from it) is a standard file requestor box. Would make getting to and editing those files a hell of a lot easier. / _______________________________________________ \ / / ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil \ /// <//` / >> \\\`__/_ The opinions expressed here belong to nobody! /,)-^>>_\`, \\\ (Anybody see nobody lately?) (/ \\ /\\\ ----------------------------------------------- // _//\\\\ ((` ((
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (01/29/91)
In-Reply-To: message from ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu [...snip] >I do agree with you that Copy II+ isn't really that great, but I've seen >reviews of Prosel (and I'm thinking of buying it very soon) and it seems >to be much better than NU. You can't go wrong. You get several hundred dollars of utility for about $55. I started with ProSel 8 and haven't turned back yet. Yea, I look at all the fancy new file selectors; but having all that power immediately available in ProSel 16 makes them all seem wimpy. There is one small selector that has promise... Take a look at ZLanch from Zavtra Software. It ain't finished yet, but it looks slick as snot so far. :) / _______________________________________________ \ / / ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil \ /// <//` / >> \\\`__/_ The opinions expressed here belong to nobody! /,)-^>>_\`, \\\ (Anybody see nobody lately?) (/ \\ /\\\ ----------------------------------------------- // _//\\\\ ((` ((
daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) (01/30/91)
In article <28463.chatter.infoapple@pro-beagle> lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > >[...snip] >>I do agree with you that Copy II+ isn't really that great, but I've seen >>reviews of Prosel (and I'm thinking of buying it very soon) and it seems >>to be much better than NU. > >You can't go wrong. You get several hundred dollars of utility for about >$55. I started with ProSel 8 and haven't turned back yet. Yea, I look >at all the fancy new file selectors; but having all that power immediately >available in ProSel 16 makes them all seem wimpy. There is one small >selector that has promise... Take a look at ZLanch from Zavtra Software. >It ain't finished yet, but it looks slick as snot so far. :) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Eeew!! :-) OK, I'll take a look at ZLaunch... BTW, I finally got a chance to look at the Software Experience Demo. It looks great! I got a question tho'... if it ran at 60fps originally (unTranswarped), why does it only run at 30 now? -- David Huang | Internet: daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "My ganglion is stuck in UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daveh | a piece of chewing gum!" America Online: DrWho29 |
meekins@dragon.cis.ohio-state.edu (timothy lee meekins) (01/30/91)
In article <43371@ut-emx.uucp> daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) writes: >In article <28463.chatter.infoapple@pro-beagle> lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) writes: >>In-Reply-To: message from ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >> >>[...snip] >>>I do agree with you that Copy II+ isn't really that great, but I've seen >>>reviews of Prosel (and I'm thinking of buying it very soon) and it seems >>>to be much better than NU. >> >>You can't go wrong. You get several hundred dollars of utility for about >>$55. I started with ProSel 8 and haven't turned back yet. Yea, I look >>at all the fancy new file selectors; but having all that power immediately >>available in ProSel 16 makes them all seem wimpy. There is one small >>selector that has promise... Take a look at ZLanch from Zavtra Software. >>It ain't finished yet, but it looks slick as snot so far. :) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thanks, I think (re: snot) :) >Eeew!! :-) > >OK, I'll take a look at ZLaunch... > >BTW, I finally got a chance to look at the Software Experience Demo. >It looks great! I got a question tho'... if it ran at 60fps originally >(unTranswarped), why does it only run at 30 now? The actual animation of the "Z" can be performed in a fraction of a screen update. If the GS could update the screen in 1/200 of second, It could probably rotate that fast, of course, you'd never be able to distinguish the "Z" from the blur. :) But then I added that line of scrolling text along the top, which takes an entire 1/60 of second to scroll, thus not leaving enough cycles left in one screen update for the "Z", thusly, I've split the demo into alternating frames. On even frames the "Z" is drawn followed by the "II Infinitum" message along the bottom, and on odd frames, the text along the top is scrolled. By pressing the keys 0-3 on the keyboard, you can actually see how much time each section is spending. You'll notice that the scrolling text takes up almost an entire screen updatem whereas rotating the "Z" does not. For more information about the animation and timing information, the source code for TSE is availbale FTP at tybalt.caltech.edu. COMING SOON!! ==> Z3D <== Realtime 3D graphics for the GS. > > >-- >David Huang | >Internet: daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "My ganglion is stuck in >UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daveh | a piece of chewing gum!" >America Online: DrWho29 | -- +---------------------------S-U-P-P-O-R-T-----------------------------------+ |/ Tim Meekins <<>> Snail Mail: <<>> Apple II \| |> meekins@cis.ohio-state.edu <<>> 8372 Morris Rd. <<>> Forever! <| |\ timm@pro-tcc.cts.com <<>> Hilliard, OH 43026 <<>> /|
-Rich-@cup.portal.com (Richard Sherman Payne) (01/30/91)
> >Uh... Yup! Wings has a very nice text editor that is FAR easier to use >than the one found in ProSel. GUI, mouse, pull down menus, and all that. >The text editor is the ONLY minus I see in ProSel though. You can't >beat it's general price/performance (or performance on its own right) >with a stick. I only wish Glen would get a grip on the CUI (common user >interface, nearly all the MS-DOS developers are switching to it. Very >similar to Apple's Mac interface we're all so familiar with). Be advised that there is a problem with the Wings text editor. It chops large text files without warning. I was in the process of converting some old executioner files, and had the oppurtunity to edit many files over 50K. They all bombed. I did not bother to figure out how large a file it takes, and while I occasionally use it, I no longer SAVE files that I have read. I tried to edit one of these files (almost have them cleaned out) today with GSX Edit. I had to chop a combiner basic program out of the text file. I cut the basic program out, selected all, deleted it, then pasted it back in. I saved the file with the name combiner. It would not exec. It took a while to find out why, but GSX Edit had saved the file with a resource fork. I really had not been looking for this. I will file a bug report to Mark Cinelli tomorrow. Oh yes, I have 4 MEG in my ROM 1 GS, and have always had several MEGS available when Wings chopped my text files. It is a problem with an otherwise nice editor. I managed to use the basic program only after entering the ORCA shell, and "type combiner > comb". This produced a text file that I counld exec. The GS still needs a decent text editor. And Prizm has it's own problems. The one that bothers me most often is that it requires a text file to end in a carrige return. Only by using three text editors can I accomplish simple tasks with files over 50K. I have an old version of EMACS. I guess it may be worth looking into. >The main feature Glen Bredon is missing in most of the modules of ProSel >(that could really stand to benefit from it) is a standard file requestor >box. Would make getting to and editing those files a hell of a lot >easier. > / _______________________________________________ > \ / / ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider > \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com > \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider > \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil > \ /// <//` > / >> \\\`__/_ The opinions expressed here belong to nobody! > /,)-^>>_\`, \\\ (Anybody see nobody lately?) > (/ \\ /\\\ ----------------------------------------------- > // _//\\\\ > ((` (( Rich -Rich-@cup.portal.com
llee@gnh-starport.cts.com (Larry Lee) (01/30/91)
Uhhhh... OA-* =was= documented in ProSel's instructions. That's the command to use NDA's. | ProLine.: llee@gnh-starport | | | UUCP....: crash!gnh-starport!llee | Yo Vanilla kick it one time, | | InterNet: llee@gnh-starport.cts.com | boooooyyyyyyyyy.... | | AO .....: Please hold... | |
rcs00455@zach.fit.edu (Kevin Anderson / Lazlo) (01/31/91)
In article <38646@cup.portal.com> -Rich-@cup.portal.com (Richard Sherman Payne) writes: >I tried to edit one of these files (almost have them cleaned out) today >with GSX Edit. I had to chop a combiner basic program out of the text >file. I cut the basic program out, selected all, deleted it, then pasted >it back in. I saved the file with the name combiner. It would not exec. >It took a while to find out why, but GSX Edit had saved the file with >a resource fork. I really had not been looking for this. I will file a >bug report to Mark Cinelli tomorrow. How did you save the files? Did you choose "Save" or "save as text"? GSXEdit by default saves it's files in teach format, which saves it with a resource fork I believe. Tyr using "save as text", I haven't had any problems with GSXEdit so far. Very nice program. > Rich > -Rich-@cup.portal.com Kevin Anderson rcs00455@zach.fit.edu
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (02/02/91)
In-Reply-To: message from meekins@dragon.cis.ohio-state.edu
Tim! "Slick as snot" is a term we Medical Technologists us a lot. It's
used to describe something we're impressed with :) It's not as bad as
analysing a nasal smear for infection or allergies... We call that "Snot
under glass". Kinda makes you think of dinner, doesn't it ;) (Eeeeww!)
Anyway, I've ran your recent release of ZLaunch and haven't experienced
any problems with it so far. I thank you for the access to the desktop
since that lets me use my text editor NDA and many other occasionally useful
NDAs I have. Glad to see you're responding to some of my suggestions. And
thanks for mentioning my name in your credits; gave me "warm fuzzies".
I hope to see the actual "Launcher" portion of the program soon!
/ _______________________________________________
\ / / ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider
\\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com
\\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider
\_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil
\ /// <//`
/ >> \\\`__/_ The opinions expressed here belong to nobody!
/,)-^>>_\`, \\\ (Anybody see nobody lately?)
(/ \\ /\\\ -----------------------------------------------
// _//\\\\
((` ((