acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) (01/29/91)
In article <1991Jan25.233114.17861@ee.ualberta.ca> jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner) writes: >In article <14979@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: >>In article <7175@crash.cts.com> dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) writes: >>>... ORCA/C ... it's completely ANSI C compatible ... >> >>No, that's a common misconception. Certainly ORCA/C tries to be a conforming >>implementation, but it falls short on a number of counts, most notably in >>preprocessing, type qualifiers, and the library. I assume these will be >>addressed for future releases. > >Well, can someone who knows all the libraries Orca/C should support >please inform the rest of us. I haven't tried to port a lot of stuff >to orca from unix because I haven't had hardly anytime since November >when I got it. But I'd like to know about these libraries because maybe >I could write some of them and we'd all be the better for it. > > Jerry Penner alberta!bode!jpenne Edmonton, Alberta, Canada > if you don't have the ANSI draft, go to the bookstore and checkout k&r II and look in the back at the functions it lists. the only two i've briefly found that are not in orca's libraries are vprintf() (which everyone knows about) and strtime() (or something like that in <time.h>). also, the libraries are somewhat buggy and slow. memxxx() is one instance of a buggy library routine (with data > 64K). also, i've you're not new to C you will find out that what Doug said above is very true, regarding preprocessing and type qualifiers. i and many others have found many bugs in orca/c. right now, i could mail mike a bug a week for the next several months if i wanted. some of them are very major and other minor inconveniences. however, if you have bugs send them to him now so he will be inundated with them and will have no other choice to get to it soon (although he says he will be getting to orca/c soon) albert
meekins@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu (timothy lee meekins) (01/29/91)
<In article <2075@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: <snip> <snip> >i and many others have found many bugs in orca/c. right now, i could mail >mike a bug a week for the next several months if i wanted. some of them are >very major and other minor inconveniences. however, if you have bugs send them >to him now so he will be inundated with them and will have no other choice >to get to it soon (although he says he will be getting to orca/c soon) > >albert I'm just learning Orca/C and I'm doing so by trying to port some Unix programs. Unfortunately I can't get any of them to work properly. What I'd really like, is if all the people on the net would get together and post a list of all the known Orca/C bugs. I'm having trouble finding the problems in these programs and was wondering if maybe I've encountered some of the famous Orca/C bugs. It makes debugging difficult, especially when you're assuming the compiler works. While I'm on the soapbox, does anyone know if there's a bug in scanf when reading integers (%d) from a file? I have program that always returns a -1 regardless of what the integer to be read is. Yes, I put a '&' in front of the variable.. -- +---------------------------S-U-P-P-O-R-T-----------------------------------+ |/ Tim Meekins <<>> Snail Mail: <<>> Apple II \| |> meekins@cis.ohio-state.edu <<>> 8372 Morris Rd. <<>> Forever! <| |\ timm@pro-tcc.cts.com <<>> Hilliard, OH 43026 <<>> /|
m.tiernan@pro-angmar.UUCP (Michael Tiernan) (01/30/91)
In-Reply-To: message from meekins@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu
Yea, but ya'know would be even neater? Have Orca on a feed like TIC.
<< MCT >>
GEnie : M.Tiernan
AppleLinkPE : M Tiernan or BCS Mike
Internet : pro-angmar!m.tiernan@alfalfa.com
UUCP : ...!uunet!alfalfa!pro-angmar!m.tiernan
"God isn't dead, he's only missing in action."
- Phil Ochstaob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (01/31/91)
From acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU): > i and many others have found many bugs in orca/c. right now, i could > mail mike a bug a week for the next several months if i wanted. some > of them are very major and other minor inconveniences. however, if > you have bugs send them to him now so he will be inundated with them > and will have no other choice to get to it soon (although he says he > will be getting to orca/c soon) I called ByteWorks yesterday to place an order for the ORCA/C + C tutorial package they have going until the end of this month. They are on back-order until the end of February, so the lady at the other end tells me. In the meantime, the manual has been updated for the next printing, and when they start shipping again, it will be with an updated version of ORCA/C which Mike is working on right now. I didn't get any other details about the upgrade to ORCA/C, but I suppose we'll see in about a month... Brian T. Tao {taob@pnet91.cts.com} || Computer guru? Someone who got University of Metro Toronto || their computer a couple of weeks Scarberia, ON, MIC 3A8 *B-) || before you did. (Alvin Toffler)
acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) (02/01/91)
In article <424@generic.UUCP> taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) writes: > I called ByteWorks yesterday to place an order for the ORCA/C + C tutorial >package they have going until the end of this month. They are on back-order >until the end of February, so the lady at the other end tells me. In the >meantime, the manual has been updated for the next printing, and when they >start shipping again, it will be with an updated version of ORCA/C which Mike >is working on right now. I didn't get any other details about the upgrade to >ORCA/C, but I suppose we'll see in about a month... Mike said that everyone who posts bugs about orca/c will get updates. this means that if you do not report a bug fix you will not get an update. so grab a bug from someone (who cares what it is) and mail it in :) albert
jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner) (02/01/91)
In article <2104@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: >In article <424@generic.UUCP> taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) writes: >> I called ByteWorks yesterday to place an order for the ORCA/C + C tutorial >>package they have going until the end of this month. They are on back-order >>until the end of February, so the lady at the other end tells me. In the >>meantime, the manual has been updated for the next printing, and when they >>start shipping again, it will be with an updated version of ORCA/C which Mike >>is working on right now. I didn't get any other details about the upgrade to >>ORCA/C, but I suppose we'll see in about a month... > >Mike said that everyone who posts bugs about orca/c will get updates. >this means that if you do not report a bug fix you will not get an update. >so grab a bug from someone (who cares what it is) and mail it in :) > >albert Then Mike is a total loser. Just because I didn't find a bug doesn't mean I didn't use his compiler. I pay for something and I don't get an upgrade and everyone else does?!?! If this is the case I will *never* buy anything from byteworks again. Oh I hope you are wrong, but if I start hearing about people with v1.2 and I never see it, Mike will get a letter from me and it won't contain a bug report. -- ------------- Jerry Penner alberta!bode!jpenne Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (02/02/91)
In article <1991Feb1.044446.26276@ee.ualberta.ca> jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner) writes: >In article <2104@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: >>Mike said that everyone who posts bugs about orca/c will get updates. >>this means that if you do not report a bug fix you will not get an update. >Then Mike is a total loser. ... I suggest that you place absolutely NO reliance on such a non sequitur. Undoubtedly ORCA/C customers will be provided the opportunity to upgrade to a new release, as has been true for ByteWorks products in the past. Note, however, that there is no reason to expect that a nominal fee may not be required. The reason the ORCA/C 1.1 upgrade was free was that ORCA/C 1.0 was simply too buggy to use, and it would have been infair to charge customers additionally for the upgrade to a usable version. I suspect bug reporters will get free upgrades via downloads from their accounts on information services, as a reward for helping improve the product. We'll see..
bazyar@ernie (Jawaid Bazyar) (02/02/91)
In article <1991Feb1.044446.26276@ee.ualberta.ca> jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner) writes: >Then Mike is a total loser. Just because I didn't find a bug doesn't mean >I didn't use his compiler. I pay for something and I don't get an upgrade >and everyone else does?!?! If this is the case I will *never* buy anything >from byteworks again. Oh I hope you are wrong, but if I start hearing about >people with v1.2 and I never see it, Mike will get a letter from me and >it won't contain a bug report. Chill out, dude. If you never got the 1.1 upgrade it's your fault. Did you send in your registration card? If you did, why didn't you call after 1.1 started appearing and you didn't receive it? What Albert was referring to was the fact that bug-posters will get beta updates, to keep them up to date as much as possible. Besides, Mike's very picky about who slams his efforts (see me .sig :-) -- Jawaid Bazyar | "I'm sure K&R have never heard of Mike." Senior/Computer Engineering | bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu | "That's okay. I'm sure Mike's never heard of K&R". Apple II Forever! | (discussion about Orca/C)
acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) (02/02/91)
>In article <2104@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: >>Mike said that everyone who posts bugs about orca/c will get updates. >>this means that if you do not report a bug fix you will not get an update. >>so grab a bug from someone (who cares what it is) and mail it in :) >> >>albert > >Then Mike is a total loser. Just because I didn't find a bug doesn't mean >I didn't use his compiler. I pay for something and I don't get an upgrade >and everyone else does?!?! If this is the case I will *never* buy anything >from byteworks again. Oh I hope you are wrong, but if I start hearing about >people with v1.2 and I never see it, Mike will get a letter from me and >it won't contain a bug report. > > Jerry Penner alberta!bode!jpenne Edmonton, Alberta, Canada well, i'm sure if you call byteworks they will send you a copy. what i meant to say (and i did not word myself correctly), is that people that sent in bug fixes will automatically get updates, just because they found bugs. now, for those of you who never found bugs, i suppose mike will do one of two things: a. send every registered user of orca/c a letter saying v1.2 or whatever is complete and it is available for x dollars (usual price for updates from orca is $10). or b. send the update FREE to every registered user. of course, because v1.1 was sent free to all registered users, i suppose he will opt for option a. anyway, at least the time is approaching, which many of us have been long hoping for. albert
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (02/02/91)
From acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU): > Mike said that everyone who posts bugs about orca/c will get updates. > this means that if you do not report a bug fix you will not get an > update. so grab a bug from someone (who cares what it is) and mail > it in :) Heh, I've been buffering all the posts about ORCA/C lately and I have quite a handful to "report" to Mike. ;) But seriously, what kind of upgrade path is that? Technically, I'm not _upgrading_, since I have nothing to upgrade -- I don't own ORCA/C yet! I can only assume that since I'm buying a new copy, I will be entitled to the latest release. I can't really report bugs if I don't have the darn software in the first place... Brian T. Tao {taob@pnet91.cts.com} || Computer guru? Someone who got University of Metro Toronto || their computer a couple of weeks Scarberia, ON, MIC 3A8 *B-) || before you did. (Alvin Toffler)
zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Sameer Parekh) (02/03/91)
In article <1991Feb1.044446.26276@ee.ualberta.ca> jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner) writes: > >Then Mike is a total loser. Just because I didn't find a bug doesn't mean >I didn't use his compiler. I pay for something and I don't get an upgrade If he beleives that then he must not believe in his program much. >and everyone else does?!?! If this is the case I will *never* buy anything >from byteworks again. Oh I hope you are wrong, but if I start hearing about >people with v1.2 and I never see it, Mike will get a letter from me and >it won't contain a bug report. Does Mike have an internet address? -- zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM
delaneyg@wc5.wnre.aecl.ca ("H. Grant Delaney PH 2206") (02/04/91)
Come on lets get realistic. Mike was the first publisher that I've run into to suppy a FREE upgrade 1.1 to orca/c. Other updates have been reasonably priced by todays standards and if your registered he always lets you know. . He is also only one of two people in the compiler field who has show continuing faith in the IIgs. It takes money to continue developing the product and hopefully come out with others. So why all the surprise that he is only sending out free updates (at least thats what I assume they mean) to people who help debug the product.
rhyde@koufax.ucr.edu (randy hyde) (02/05/91)
>> He is also only one of two people in the compiler field now continuing >> faith in the GS (Mike Westerfield). Amen. Regardless of how *slow* his software is, I will continue to support Byteworks for this reason alone until I am willing to write this code myself. Of course, if we had Flex & BISON working 100% on the GS, I'd probably be willing to tackle the job. BTW, my software engineering class at Cal Poly is currently (attempting to) write assembly language versions of Flex & Bison (They will generate assembly code, we're not re-writing them in assembly). I will pick the best student's work (assumming *anyone* gets it working) and attempt a 65816 port (they'll be generating 8086 code). Of course, I've run into major problems attempting to port Flex & Bison to the GS. If anyone out there has succeeded, I'd be interested in a few pointers... *** Randy Hyde
bazyar@chip (Jawaid Bazyar) (02/05/91)
In article <11676@ucrmath.ucr.edu> rhyde@koufax.ucr.edu (randy hyde) writes: >>> He is also only one of two people in the compiler field now continuing >>> faith in the GS (Mike Westerfield). > >Amen. >Regardless of how *slow* his software is, I will continue to support Byteworks >for this reason alone until I am willing to write this code myself. Of course, >if we had Flex & BISON working 100% on the GS, I'd probably be willing >to tackle >the job. Well, I guess I've just been waiting longer than you, because I've started doing some research on a C compiler. (yes, I know, I try to do everything). We've (Rob Knauerhase and I) had good luck so far with some C preprocessor source we found, and I'm starting work on a Lexer. I've already got a working grammar for C, so it's just a matter of plugging the pieces together and filling in the blank spots. Which is, of course, the most difficult part (developing the code generators, etc). If anyone would be interested in helping! just drop me a note. I'm looking for someone who knows C in and out, who knows '816 assembly in and out, and who has experience with Orca's code generation models (I don't want to redo that stuff from scratch, and it should also be compatible with Orca code). We'll let you know how it goes- I ran out of memory before I could see if cpp would compile, but there was only one error I saw, so that bodes well. -- Jawaid Bazyar | "I'm sure K&R have never heard of Mike." Senior/Computer Engineering | bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu | "That's okay. I'm sure Mike's never heard of K&R". Apple II Forever! | (discussion about Orca/C)
toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (02/05/91)
bazyar@chip (Jawaid Bazyar) writes: > If anyone would be interested in helping! just drop me a note. I'm >looking for someone who knows C in and out, who knows '816 assembly >in and out, and who has experience with Orca's code generation models >(I don't want to redo that stuff from scratch, and it should also be >compatible with Orca code). Gee, sounds like me... although the only Orca code generation model I would stick with is the subroutine calling protocol. I've looked at some of Orca's output code and I'm convinced that Mike is having problems because his expression evaluation and l-value computation models are constantly at odds with each other. I've got an idea for code generation and I think it's a major winner, but I don't have the time right now to write all the front end code required before I could actually try it out -- it's a variation on P-code that is geared for peephole optimization DURING the translation to native code. I believe I can even get away with some simple register scheduling and still keep the model reasonable -- and I know of quite a few simple cases in which this would yield rather nice improvements over Orca's code. I suggest you DO NOT use the Orca library AT ALL. I believe we should construct a new library. I've had some fun playing with the .ROOT code (Twilight blankers in C, finder message to argc/argv converters, and so on) and I'm convinced that an awesome library could be written in 'a GS/OS state of mind' so to speak. > We'll let you know how it goes- I ran out of memory before I could >see if cpp would compile, but there was only one error I saw, so that >bodes well. I've got 2 megs -- will that help? Or does the source just need to be split up into manageable pieces? Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
bazyar@ernie (Jawaid Bazyar) (02/05/91)
In article <1991Feb5.020407.24118@nntp-server.caltech.edu> toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: [mentions that he's thought of a good code generation model] Okay, as soon as I get a parser completed I'll hand over the stuff to you :-) And I guess I did mean just 'compatible' with it's calling conventions. >I suggest you DO NOT use the Orca library AT ALL. I believe we should construct >a new library. I've had some fun playing with the .ROOT code (Twilight blankers >in C, finder message to argc/argv converters, and so on) and I'm convinced that >an awesome library could be written in 'a GS/OS state of mind' so to speak. hmm... sounds decent. Since pieces of the Unix libraries are being put together (someone IS working on curses, right?), I'm not terribly worried about them. Most of the C library is trivial stuff (exception being qsort) that could be reproduced, and reproduced WELL in a few weeks, or a couple days by a few dedicated people. (the ORCA libs, not the Unix ones). >I've got 2 megs -- will that help? Or does the source just need to be >split up into manageable pieces? I swiped some RAM from Rob Knauerhase :-) All he does is run TelCom, anyway :-) (Until this C thing is finished, at which point he'll set about compiling BSD 4.3 (or so he says) :-) ). -- Jawaid Bazyar | "I'm sure K&R have never heard of Mike." Senior/Computer Engineering | bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu | "That's okay. I'm sure Mike's never heard of K&R". Apple II Forever! | (discussion about Orca/C)