crew@pro-harvest.cts.com (Chris Wicklein) (01/28/91)
I was happy with my understanding that the GS 3.5" drive could not read/write MFM until it hit me that the PCT board from AE uses the GS 3.5" drive for MS-DOS. Can someone please enlighten me? ________________________ _________________________ | ProLine: crew@pro-harvest | | Internet: crew@pro-harvest.cts.com | | UUCP: crash!pro-harvest!crew | | ARPA: crash!pro-harvest!crew@nosc.mil | |_______________ BITNET: crew%pro-harvest.cts.com@nosc.mil _________________|
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (01/28/91)
In <7240@crash.cts.com> crew@pro-harvest.cts.com (Chris Wicklein) writes: > I was happy with my understanding that the GS 3.5" drive could not >read/write MFM until it hit me that the PCT board from AE uses the GS 3.5" >drive for MS-DOS. Can someone please enlighten me? I don't have a PC Transporter (and don't want one!), so the following is just going to be conjecture: It doesn't actually read/write MFM.. It's simply a "pseudo" MS-DOS. In theory the same thing as UniDOS and AmDOS (etc), the "DOS 3.3" for 3.5" drives.. To programs that don't read/write at the block level, they work fine in their ignorant assumption that they're running off of a 5.25" drive... (It sucks how a bunch of old file games explicitly have slot 6 in their program and thus can't be put on a 3.5" disk w/out major hacking) By the way, anybody have any plans to put any of the following on 3.5" disk: Wings of Fury, Rescue Raiders, Short Circuit, or Ultima V? With those on 3.5" disks, I think I'd get rid of 80% of my virtually nil 5.25" disk usage.. -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ \WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. /
daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) (01/29/91)
In article <7240@crash.cts.com> crew@pro-harvest.cts.com (Chris Wicklein) writes: > > I was happy with my understanding that the GS 3.5" drive could not >read/write MFM until it hit me that the PCT board from AE uses the GS 3.5" >drive for MS-DOS. Can someone please enlighten me? The IWM can't handle the MFM, but the drive itself can... The PCT board has some hardware that will read the MFM coding. > ________________________ _________________________ >| ProLine: crew@pro-harvest | >| Internet: crew@pro-harvest.cts.com | >| UUCP: crash!pro-harvest!crew | >| ARPA: crash!pro-harvest!crew@nosc.mil | >|_______________ BITNET: crew%pro-harvest.cts.com@nosc.mil _________________| -- David Huang | Internet: daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "My ganglion is stuck in UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daveh | a piece of chewing gum!" America Online: DrWho29 |
rcs00455@zach.fit.edu (Kevin Anderson / Lazlo Hollyfeld) (01/29/91)
In article <11618@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > >In <7240@crash.cts.com> crew@pro-harvest.cts.com (Chris Wicklein) writes: >> I was happy with my understanding that the GS 3.5" drive could not >>read/write MFM until it hit me that the PCT board from AE uses the GS 3.5" >>drive for MS-DOS. Can someone please enlighten me? > > I don't have a PC Transporter (and don't want one!), so the >following is just going to be conjecture: > > It doesn't actually read/write MFM.. It's simply a "pseudo" MS-DOS. > I was under a different impression, so I looked it up in my PCTransporter manual (yes, I have one, though I don't hardly use it anymore.) According to the manual, "[the Apple 3.5" drive] is a unique drive because it is the first Apple drive capable of _directly_ reading and writting either GCR or MFM formats." When you hook up an Apple 3.5" drive to the PCTransporter it will read and write MFM formated disks. The only thing the manual says that you might have problems with is when you format a disk on the Apple 3.5 and then try to use it in a true IBM machine. They suggest that you format your 3.5's on a true IBM to be sure of media compatibility. (I haven't ever tried this, I only have one 3.5, but this is what the manual says). Anyway this suggests that all you would need is some software (like Apple File Exchange for the GS) to read and write IBM 720k disks. Like I said, this is what I thought and what the manual says, but I haven't tried it. > In theory the same thing as UniDOS and AmDOS (etc), the "DOS 3.3" >for 3.5" drives.. To programs that don't read/write at the block level, >they work fine in their ignorant assumption that they're running off of a >5.25" drive.. This is how the PCTransporter writes MS-DOS to Apple drives and my hard drive hooked up to the Apple, it writes MS-DOS volumes as a ProDos file. >(It sucks how a bunch of old file games explicitly have >slot 6 in their program and thus can't be put on a 3.5" disk w/out major >hacking) Yea, I hate that too..... >-- >/Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ >\WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. / Kevin Anderson rcs00455@zach.fit.edu
jeffh@HyperMail.apple.com (Jeff Holcomb) (01/29/91)
In article <11618@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > It doesn't actually read/write MFM.. It's simply a "pseudo" MS-DOS. This isn't true. The Apple 3.5" drive (platinum colored) can read/write disks both in GCR and MFM formats. The IWM drive controller chip that is in the IIgs on the other hand can _only_ r/w GCR format. The PCT has a SWIM drive controller chip on it, so that when the Apple 3.5" drive (or AE's drive) is plugged directly into the PCT, it can r/w both formats. The SWIM chip also allows adding a 360k 5.25" MFM drive to the PCT to r/w ordinary MS-DOS disks. How do I know this? I worked at AE in the past. ___________________________________________________________________________ Jeff Holcomb Internet: jeffh@HyperMail.apple.com AppleLink: jeffh@HyperMail.apple.com@INTERNET# GEnie: A2.JEFFH Contracting for Apple ATG Voice: (408) 974-0841 My opinions are not necessarily those of Apple. :-P ___________________________________________________________________________
ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (01/29/91)
> I was happy with my understanding that the GS 3.5" drive could not >read/write MFM until it hit me that the PCT board from AE uses the GS 3.5" >drive for MS-DOS. Can someone please enlighten me? >________________________ _________________________ >| ProLine: crew@pro-harvest | The drive itself does not give a damn whether it is writing GCR or MFM data, it is the controller that handles the encoding. The PCT has an MFM controller (720k only) whereas the GS has a GCR controller (800k or 400k ). Both mechanisms are identical regardless of which coding form is used and regardless of in which machine they are installed. When I still had my PCT, it used Apple's drive quite nicely without any problems at all. For the person with Apple II emulator in their IBM, you have the same problem. The card includes a controller (it had better) for Apple II 5 1/4" drives, getting one of these is your easiest solution. You can not use your IBM drives to read Apple disks, although you might be able to put Apple II programs on IBM formatted disks, you will require utilities from the manufacturer to get the card to read them. BTW, adding the Apple II card DID improve your IBM. Significantly. UUCP: bkj386!pnet91!ericmcg INET: ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com
gh1w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory A. Haverkamp) (01/30/91)
In regards to the response that the PCT only uses a pseduo MSDOS on a GS 3.5, it should be mentioned that this only correct under certain conditions. When the GS 3.5" drive is connected directly to the floppy cable from the PCT, it actually will read and write "real" MSDOS. Well, real enough that I could write programs on my GS at home and take them to a friends MSDOS machine, stick them in, and operate from them. By the same token, it will also read 3.5" disks formatted and operated originally in a true MSDOS machine. When, however, the GS 3.5" drive is connected to the Smartport, they are actually written to in a special format, that can only be read in by the PCT. This is the same thing that happens to 5.25" drives connected to the Smartport. Greg Haverkamp GH1W@andrew.cmu.edu
WAXMONRW@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (01/31/91)
Gregory Haverkamp said: >In regards to the response that the PCT only uses a pseduo MSDOS on a GS >3.5, it should be mentioned that this only correct under certain >conditions. >When the GS 3.5" drive is connected directly to the floppy cable from >the PCT, it actually will read and write "real" MSDOS. Well, real >enough that I could write programs on my GS at home and take them to a >friends MSDOS machine, stick them in, and operate from them. By the >same token, it will also read 3.5" disks formatted and operated >originally in a true MSDOS machine. As I have said recently, sometimes you can read the msdos disk written to by the PCT on an MSDOS machine, and sometimes (most times) you cannot. Thee is no consitancy as to what msdos machine will read the disk and which will not. As for "real" MSDOS, I do not know what you mean. All IBM compatibles are "real" msdos machines. The actual DOS used on the machine can vary, depending on what was supplied with the machine or what te user substituted for the orginally supplied DOS. The "best" (most reliable) DOS to use on the PCT is IBM's PC DOS, version 3.3. I have even been able to successfully use a shareware DOS (4-DOS); I have not, however, been able to use Zenith's DOS on my PCT. There have been many discussions of the various types of DOS and their compatibility with the PCT on the PCT forum on GENIE. Those discussions support my observations presented above. Just to be sure you understand, I am talking about connectig the 3.5 disk directly to the PCT's cable connector, not through the Smartport. To tell you the truth, I was not aware that you could write an msdos file to a 3.5 drive which is connected to the Smartport. Ray Waxmonksy (waxmonrw@snybufva) Bitnet, of course.
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (01/31/91)
On Wed, 30 Jan 91 21:47:00 EST <WAXMONRW%SNYBUFVA.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> said: >Gregory Haverkamp said: > >As I have said recently, sometimes you can read the msdos disk written >to by the PCT on an MSDOS machine, and sometimes (most times) you cannot. >Thee is no consitancy as to what msdos machine will read the disk >and which will not. As for "real" MSDOS, I do not know what you mean. He means 'real' ms-dos as opposed to the way ms-dos files are written to any apple drive that's connected to the Apple instead of the PCT. If the drive is conencted to the apple, the disk is block formatted as a ProDOS disk, but the FAT is the same as ms-dos. Therefore, the disk can ONLY be read in the exact configuration that is was created. On the other hand, if you have an Apple 3.5" drive connected directly to the PCT (NOT the smartport), then you can format 'real' ms-dos disks. They can be read on REAL ms-dos machines (some of the time). Also, REAL ms-dos formatted disks created on a REAL ms-dos machine (which the PCT is, by the way), can easily be read by the PCT if a drive is connected directly to the PCT. >All IBM compatibles are "real" msdos machines. The actual DOS used That's what he's talking about... 'real' ms-dos machines as opposed to an Apple II with a PCT. >Ray Waxmonksy (waxmonrw@snybufva) Bitnet, of course. ---------------------------------------- Michael J. Quinn University of Tennessee at Chattanooga BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
redbeard@pro-graphics.cts.com (Dave Chow) (02/08/91)
CS-ID: #5877.apple.ii/net.general@pro-graphics, 1271 chars Date: 30 Jan 91 06:39:01 GMT From: gh1w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory A. Haverkamp) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 In regards to the response that the PCT only uses a pseduo MSDOS on a GS 3.5, it should be mentioned that this only correct under certain conditions. When the GS 3.5" drive is connected directly to the floppy cable from the PCT, it actually will read and write "real" MSDOS. Well, real enough that I could write programs on my GS at home and take them to a friends MSDOS machine, stick them in, and operate from them. By the same token, it will also read 3.5" disks formatted and operated originally in a true MSDOS machine. When, however, the GS 3.5" drive is connected to the Smartport, they are actually written to in a special format, that can only be read in by the PCT. This is the same thing that happens to 5.25" drives connected to the Smartport. Greg Haverkamp GH1W@andrew.cmu.edu so there's no way to have a MSDOS machine read my files written by a PCT connected to my Smartport? dave chow