ujmurphy@mcs.drexel.edu (Jim Murphy) (04/05/91)
Well, let me throw my $0.02 into the MultiFinder IIGS discussion. First
off, I speak with some experience, since I've written the core of a context-
switching system for my IIGS. I've been playing with the idea of MultiFinder
IIGS since about '87. I've had my version running (well, let's call it walking
- It's not perfect, by a long shot) since Christmas of 1988. It's been an
extremely interesting learning process, but I've just not had the time and the
resources to make it what a MultiFinder should be. I've been doing unavoidable
things - like school, work, and foremost, sleep.
Anyway, the point that Todd Whitesel brought up concerning Close with
refNum zero has come to me, but I haven't put it way up there on the priority
list. Heck, up until Apple documented 'internal file level' in a recent GS/OS
Technote, DAs have been able to have their files nuked at any moment under the
official system software. Yes, the chances of it happening to DAs are much
less likely than in a multi-application environment. It is a sticky wicket,
but it's one that can be fixed without too much pain.
Other items lurking around the corner are such things as handling
HeartBeats, the RunQ, application patches to toolsets, arbitration of user
tool sets, binding of interrupts to the various vectors, notification queue
routines, and more. An application switcher or MF has quite a large context
that it needs to worry about to keep applications insulated from each other.
Without careful management of these things, applications can stomp all over
each other. From what I've seen, that's not a real pretty sight.
All of this requires the systematic patching of all of the involved tool
calls. In my experiments it requires over 70 patches to get even a basic
switching system going. This doesn't even include any of the items I presented
in the last paragraph. So, what am I getting at? Well, in my humble opinion,
the group best suited to doing something like this is Andy and company. Since
they are the ones responsible for our most cherished system software, they
have the inside track on getting something like this working properly. I
believe in the French group (well, not _every_ feature. Multiprocessing? Since
when?) but I have a want for the "real" thing from Apple. Andy did say we'd be
extremely pleased with the next Finder dodn't he? Hmmm...
My only regret in this manner is the double standard that is Apple's
credo. When did the world learn of the impending features in mac System 7.0?
May of 1989? If only the II world could have knowledge and into what is
really going on with our system software, we could _really_ shape our little
world's direction. Sigh. Then again, dumping suggestions on them doesn't seem
to hurt. Right Andy, Dave?
Well, my $0.02 in the meter has run out. Catch you later.
Jim Murphy Internet: ujmurphy@mcs.drexel.edu
CoOp - Software Quality Assurance GEnie: J.MURPHY7
Reality Technologies, Inc.
- My opinions are mine, all mine, all mine, all mine, all mine...I think. -JWANKERL@UTCVM.BITNET ("Josef W. Wankerl") (04/06/91)
On Fri, 5 Apr 91 05:25:29 GMT Jim Murphy said: > My only regret in this manner is the double standard that is Apple's >credo. When did the world learn of the impending features in mac System 7.0? >May of 1989? If only the II world could have knowledge and into what is >really going on with our system software, we could _really_ shape our little >world's direction. Sigh. Then again, dumping suggestions on them doesn't seem >to hurt. Right Andy, Dave? Well, I dunno. May 89, and now it's almost May 91. That's a long time to know about a product that hasn't shown its face yet. The HyperCard IIGS wait was even longer than I cared for. But then, if you look hard enough (which is not very hard) you can find someebody with System 7 beta anyhow. >Jim Murphy Internet: ujmurphy@mcs.drexel.edu >CoOp - Software Quality Assurance GEnie: J.MURPHY7 >Reality Technologies, Inc. > >- My opinions are mine, all mine, all mine, all mine, all mine...I think. - -- ===> Josef W. Wankerl, Technical Editor for GS+ Magazine BITNET: JWANKERL@UTCVM.BITNET | America Online: JWankerl ProLine: jwankerl@pro-gsplus |-------------------------------- Internet: jwankerl@pro-gsplus.cts.com | "I am a Viking" -Y. Malmsteen
SHBOUM@MACALSTR.EDU (04/06/91)
Josef Walker in an article writes: >> My only regret in this manner is the double standard that is Apple's >>credo. When did the world learn of the impending features in mac System 7.0? >>May of 1989? If only the II world could have knowledge and into what is >>really going on with our system software, we could _really_ shape our little >>world's direction. Sigh. Then again, dumping suggestions on them doesn't seem >>to hurt. Right Andy, Dave? > Well, I dunno. May 89, and now it's almost May 91. That's a long time > to know about a product that hasn't shown its face yet. The > HyperCard IIGS wait was even longer than I cared for. But then, if you > look hard enough (which is not very hard) you can find someebody with >System 7 beta anyhow. They've been working on System 7.0 for at least that long. And about that double faced comment, guess whats on Apple.COM's FTP sites in the sys.soft directory for macintosh under dts? A big 40K question and answer dated from 1989 about excatly what new features System version 7.0 was going to have. The only thing we didn't know about it was that it was going to take 3 years to finish the damn thing {Its catching up to Wizardy IV, Sirtech thought that it was going to ship in '83 - Wrong!!! Ended up being '87 and it still wasn't that awesome...} And 7.0 still isn't out yet!!! Just take a look the q&a though. It Starts out as"Q. Why is Apple talking about System 7.0?" Well "Q. why isn't Apple talking about the II?" Everything's such a damn secret. Scully in Incider: "But in regards to future products for the Apple II, I cannot say..." I'm surprised they let Andy mention that he's working on the Finder, unless he let it slip and can't cover it up. When's the last time you've seen a 40 page document concerning Apple's future plans on the II? And sure hope it wasn't that tasteless Apple Ad in Incider... The II isn't ground breaking technology and it can't be that their worried about Nientendio stealing their secrets. Althogh I really don't know the real reason, I think its because they don't care. After all, look at the support that we've gotten. Hal | Hal Bouma | Send mail to: SHBoum@Macalstr.edu | Macalester College | and SHBoum@Macalstr.Bitnet | GEnie: H.Bouma | ".Sig Under Construction..."
anarch@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (The Anarch) (04/06/91)
In article <9104051641.AA23410@apple.com> JWANKERL@UTCVM.BITNET ("Josef W. Wankerl") writes: >Well, I dunno. May 89, and now it's almost May 91. That's a long time >to know about a product that hasn't shown its face yet. The >HyperCard IIGS wait was even longer than I cared for. But then, if you >look hard enough (which is not very hard) you can find someebody with >System 7 beta anyhow. >[...] >===> Josef W. Wankerl, Technical Editor for GS+ Magazine I've got a System 7 beta, and believe me, it's not ready to have its face shown. This is from last October, so things have probably improved some, but from what I've seen the wait will still go on for some time. This is all IMHO, of course. anarch@dartmouth.edu -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-anarch@dartmouth.edu+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall, And universal darkness buries all. D I S C L A I M E R : E V E R Y T H I N G I W R I T E I S F A L S E
shrinkit@Apple.COM (Andrew Nicholas) (04/06/91)
In article <1991Apr5.052529.9974@mcs.drexel.edu> ujmurphy@mcs.drexel.edu (Jim Murphy) writes: >Andy did say we'd be extremely pleased with the next Finder dodn't he? Hmmm... I always get a kick out of reading everyone's speculation on the Finder. Some user groups have reported that I've turned the GS system software single- handedly into Macintosh System 7.0 -- it just ain't true. Those people who expect the impossible are going to be disappointed. The trick is in realizing what other people -think- is impossible and doing it. That is to say that what some people think is impossible really isn't. <grin> >Jim Murphy andy -- Andy Nicholas GEnie & America-Online: shrinkit Apple IIGS System Software CompuServe: 70771,2615 Apple Computer, Inc. InterNET: shrinkit@apple.com
EWINGRA@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU (04/07/91)
Regarding Mac System 7....just for a moment. You have an old beta 1 copy. I'm running beta 5 and the final candidate was just frozen a couple of days ago. System 7 is ALMOST DONE! And I'm confident that GS/OS 4.0 (Sys Soft 6.0) will be just as neat! --Rick Ewing Vanderbilt University