lang@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Raymond Lang) (04/09/91)
In <14260@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > You could bypass a 3.5" 800K floppy altogether and get a Brier or Insite >25 megabyte 3.5" floptical drive... They sound awesome and I think I'm gonna get one. >They cost like $600 I've been told. Does anyone have more details on these? Specifically, is this a SCSI device? What kind of disks do they accept? Is anyone out there using one on a IIgs? Who sells them? Thanks, Ray lang@rex.cs.tulane.edu
2hnemarrow@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (04/09/91)
ARGNFLPTESDF!!!! Please excuse my language. I just called Insite. They're sending me a brochure, but the drive won't be available to we common folk until August. Arrow Electronics (800) 776-2776 will be the initial distributer. Why do we computer folk halfta wait years for new products?! Especially when we need them NOW.
2hnemarrow@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (04/10/91)
In article <6947@rex.cs.tulane.edu>, lang@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Raymond Lang) writes: > In <14260@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >> You could bypass a 3.5" 800K floppy altogether and get a Brier or Insite >>25 megabyte 3.5" floptical drive... They sound awesome and I think I'm gonna get one. >>They cost like $600 I've been told. > > Does anyone have more details on these? Specifically, is this a SCSI device? > What kind of disks do they accept? Is anyone out there using one on a IIgs? > Who sells them? I read about those a long time ago and called Insite myself about them. They said that the Floptical drives would be available in March (last month). I don't know what is going on right now. I'll have to call Insite again and see what's going on. In any case, here is the info I have on the Floptical drives right now (note that it may be a little dated): The INSITE Floptical (R) Diskette is a stadard 3.5" high-density diskette with optical servo tracks indelibly embedded into the surface. The precision of these sevo tracks provides a dramatic increase in storage capacity to -over 20MB-. Care and handling of Floptical diskettes is no different than that of any standard 3.5" diskettes. Drives The INSITE I325VM Floptical (R) Disk Drive has over 20MB of formatted capacity. The controller and SCSI interface support the Common Command Set (CCS), soft formatting, error checking and correction (ECC), and defect mapping. In addition, the I325VM (Variable Mode) offers full read and write downward compatability with current 3.5" 720kB and 1.44MB formatted diskettes. Result You can have the lowest cost for 20 MegaBytes of formatted data storage on a 3.5" diskette, plus full read and write compatability with all current low capacity diskettes. The Technology INSITE Peripherals` propriety design of the I325VM Floptical (R) Drive brings together removable floppy magnetic recording technology with the high track density of a closed loop optical servo. The combining of these technologies enables the INSITE drives to reach high data capacities using inexpensive, removable magnetic media. Our optical system in the carriage assembly detects grooves embedded in the diskette media and then converts the images to electronic signals which are used for servo tracking information. Magnetic data is written on the "land area" between any two adjacent grooves. A closed-loop servo holds the magnetic head precisely on track precise track alignment is accomlished electronically assuring total interchangability between diskettes. Read and Write compatibility with standard low capacity 3.5" diskettes is achieved using a proprietary dual-gap head. The Specs FLOPTICAL Standard Diskette DD/HD Diskette _________________________________________________________________ Capacity Unformatted: 25MB | 1 / 2 MB Formatted: 20.8MB | 720KB / 1.44MB | Recording 23,980 BPI (RLL) | 8,717 / 17,434 BPI Density | (MFM) | Transfer from 1.6Mbit/Sec. | 600K / 1.2Mbit/Sec. Disk: | | Buffer Transfer 2 MByte/Sec. Rate: Average Seek Time: 65 mSec. Settle Time: 15 mSec. Motor Start Time: 750 mSec. Number of R/W 2 Heads: | Track Density: 1250 TPI | 135 TPI | Cylinders: 755 | 80 Tracks: 1510 | 160 Rotational Speed: 720 r.p.m. Power Dissipation: 2.5 Watt avg Data Reliability: <1 Unrecoverable error per 10^12 bits Seek Errors: <1 Error per 10^6 seeks Drive Dimensions: H:1" W:4.0" D:5.91" "Floptical" is a Registered Trademark of INSITE Perepherals. All Patents Pending. These are the prices for the floptical drives as of July 1990: Sugg. List Price: Model 1325 -- $295.00 Model 1325VM -- $350.00 For additional information you may contact: Insite Peripherals, Inc. 4433 Fortran Dr. San Jose, CA 95134 (408) 946 - 8080 (I have called them myself and the operator was very nice and amazingly helpful. If nobody else posts it by the time I get back here, I'll try and get the most recent release date and prices. )
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (04/10/91)
In art. <6947@rex.cs.tulane.edu> lang@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Raymond Lang) writes: >In <14260@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >> You could bypass a 3.5" 800K floppy altogether and get a Brier or Insite >>25 meg 3.5" floptical drive. They sound awesome and I think I'm gonna get one. >>They cost like $600 I've been told. >Does anyone have more details on these? Specifically, is this a SCSI device? >What kind of disks do they accept? Is anyone out there using one on a IIgs? >Who sells them? Along with the Insite one mentioned in a previous article, there's also one by Brier Technology... (getting the pamphlet out of my teeth to look up specs and compare to Insite's) Brier has 3 models.. Two of which are 25 megs formatted and 21.4 megs formatted. [Could someone confirm to me that these are probably the specs for MSDOS or something, and whatever operating system you use will use a different amount of space for formatting info??] Both of those have a track to track speed of 15 ms, average of 35, and maximum of 70 ms... The difference between the two is that one of them reads IBM formatted floppies. Their third model is 50 megs unformatted and 43.2 megs formatted. It has 10 ms track to track, 29 ms average, and 55 ms max. Comparing that to Insite's AVERAGE of 65 ms, these are MUCH faster. I hope that Brier's prices are near that to Insite's... About a year ago, I heard about these floptical drives.. I got in touch with Brier and Insite, and they sent me their info pamphlets. BOTH of them also included their price lists.. The prices on both drives for 100 or more quantity was VERY good apparently (like $300-$400). So I went through a relatively large bit of work to get over a hundred people on Internet interested in this by posting to basically every single personal-computer related UseNet group, and some other groups.. and sending people who were interested info [which was usually the same as the huge file I posted to the newsgroups, and all it contained was the type of info the other guy posted on Insite's drive with similar info on Brier's drives].. Then I write to both companies and they said NO! I told them how definitely -I- needed no special drivers or anything because of GS/OS's default SCSI driver. They just said no, and repeated something they said in a previous letter (that tehyw ouldn't sell directly to the public). Now I know I should have just went and bought a reseller's license (I think like $15-$20 but I may be wrong), and then they'd've at least sold ME one for myself. Now I know people with reseller's licenses so they are going to get in touch with Brier & Insite for me and maybe buy me a drive cheap (or get one for testing purposes). To answer the rest of your questions, YES they are SCSI devices, and no I don't know anyone who's used 'em on a GS, but they're a SCSI device, and for all practical purposes, SCSI IS SCSI.. (AND THE GS SUPPORTS REMOVABLE MEDIA WITH NO SPECIAL DRIVERS.. I know the Syquest 45 meg cartridge drives need special drivers!! I know that because I know someone who works for Peripheral Land Inc) The disks on both drives cost about $20 apiece, but that's a very small price per meg! -- /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! ULTIMA VI GS -mail me. CDs-mail me\ \ McIntosh Junior: The Power to Crush the Other Kids. /
2hnemarrow@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (04/11/91)
In article <14310@darkstar.ucsc.edu>, unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > Now I know I should have just went and bought a reseller's license > (I think like $15-$20 but I may be wrong), and then they'd've at least sold ME > one for myself. Now I know people with reseller's licenses so they are going > to get in touch with Brier & Insite for me and maybe buy me a drive > cheap (or get one for testing purposes). One of our AUG members has a reseller's license, exactly what information would I need to give him to see what he can do about getting a drive or two?
jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (04/11/91)
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > To answer the rest of your questions, YES they are SCSI devices, and > no I don't know anyone who's used 'em on a GS, but they're a SCSI device, > and for all practical purposes, SCSI IS SCSI.. (AND THE GS SUPPORTS > REMOVABLE MEDIA WITH NO SPECIAL DRIVERS.. I know the Syquest 45 meg > cartridge drives need special drivers!! I know that because I know someone > who works for Peripheral Land Inc) > -- > /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! ULTIMA VI GS -mail me. CDs-mail me\ > \ McIntosh Junior: The Power to Crush the Other Kids. / Sorry, but that's just not true. A friend of mine has a SyQuest drive, and we put it on a GS only a couple weeks ago. It works fine; you just can't issue the "eject" command from the finder, because the finder doesn't think it's ejectable. However, if you press the "I want to eject the cartridge" button on the drive, and remove the cartridge, the computer DOES understand. It greys the icons, and you can insert another cartridge and it will mount it. The special drivers probably make it think it's ejectable so you can use OA-E to eject, and may gain some speed over the standard Apple SCSI driver. Other than that, it's just NOT NEEDED. -------------------- Jeffrey Hutzelman America Online: JeffreyH11 Internet: jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: JHUTZ@DRYCAS >> Apple // Forever!!! <<
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (04/12/91)
In article <8c0xz5C00VokN_KBlk@andrew.cmu.edu> jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) writes: .unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: .> To answer the rest of your questions, YES they are SCSI devices, and .> no I don't know anyone who's used 'em on a GS, but they're a SCSI device, .> and for all practical purposes, SCSI IS SCSI.. (AND THE GS SUPPORTS .> REMOVABLE MEDIA WITH NO SPECIAL DRIVERS.. I know the Syquest 45 meg .> cartridge drives need special drivers!! I know that because I know someone .> who works for Peripheral Land Inc) .Sorry, but that's just not true. A friend of mine has a SyQuest .drive, and we put it on a GS only a couple weeks ago. It works fine; .you just can't issue the "eject" command from the finder, because the .finder doesn't think it's ejectable. However, if you press the "I .want to eject the cartridge" button on the drive, and remove the .cartridge, the computer DOES understand. It greys the icons, and you .can insert another cartridge and it will mount it. I --SAID-- "THE GS SUPPORTS REMOVABLE MEDIA WITH NO SPECIAL DRIVERS". I don't think you cut anything out of the section you quoted, so I made a misstatement also. On the MAC you need special drivers.. But I -did- say you don't need drivers on the GS. I'm not sure if this is technically correct, but I would presume that you can't do an Eject from the Finder (or drag it in the trash) since the Syquest has no eject mechanism and you have to do it manually. I used on one my GS for a weekend a long time ago. It was COOL as hell. And I think the Floptical drives will be even cooler. -- /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! ULTIMA VI GS -mail me. CDs-mail me\ \ McIntosh Junior: The Power to Crush the Other Kids. /
jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (04/13/91)
It doesn't need special drivers on the Mac, either. Cutting Edge
provided a driver init with my friend's drive, but it works fine without
it. On the Mac, you have to "eject" each partition on the drive before
it will respond to the "I want to eject" button on the drive. The IIgs,
on the other hand, has no problem dealing with devices that eject and
THEN tell the computer.
--------------------
Jeffrey Hutzelman America Online: JeffreyH11
Internet: jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: JHUTZ@DRYCAS
>> Apple // Forever!!! <<whitewolf@gnh-starport.cts.com (Tae Song) (04/13/91)
|> You could bypass a 3.5" 800K floppy altogether and get a Brier or Insite |>25 megabyte 3.5" floptical drive... They sound awesome and I think I'm gonna |>get one.They cost like $600 I've been told. | |Does anyone have more details on these? Specifically, is this a SCSI device? |What kind of disks do they accept? Is anyone out there using one on a IIgs? |Who sells them? The Insite drive hold only around 20MB, and is/was suppose to cost about $250 or so. I think Brier took over teh 20MB drive, I don't know full story, I use to keep on both type of drive. Anyways, you could skip the floptical drive and for the Syquest 44MB removable drives. The SyQuest was developed by Brier, BTW. whitewolf@gnh-starport!info-apple
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (04/13/91)
In article <m0jRbNY-000050C@jartel.info.com> whitewolf@gnh-starport.cts.com (Tae Song) writes: >The Insite drive hold only around 20MB, and is/was suppose to cost about $250 >or so. I think Brier took over teh 20MB drive, I don't know full story, I use >to keep on both type of drive. "Only" around 20 megabytes? It's on a 3.5" floppy disk for (the non- existant) God's sake. Versus the roughly VHS-tape sized Syquest based cartridge.. Ok.. It's smaller... I'd say about 2/3 of the surface area on the top as a VHS take and 1/2 the volume. >Anyways, you could skip the floptical drive and for the Syquest 44MB removable >drives. The SyQuest was developed by Brier, BTW. Are you sure that Brier designed it? There is a company CALLED Syquest. Did Syquest just buy the rights from Brier? If so, WHY? Seems like a stupid business decision. Anyway, the floptical drive is A MUCH MUCH MUCH better deal. For LESS money, you get the drive, which is at most 1/2 the size of the Syquest-based drives. And the Syquest based drives are MUCH more expensive per meg, and are "less portable". That is, they're WAY more than twice as big, and only hold twice as much info. The Brier and Insite drives use special FLOPPY DISKS which cost about $20 to hold 20 megs (The 50 megabyte version's disks probably cost a little more). The Syquest based drive's CARTRIDGE costs around $70-$80, from most of the mail order ads I see. And those are 44 megs [unformatted] vs. the Syquest & Insite's 25 megs [unformatted]. Sure seems like a HELL of a worse deal to me. I still may end up getting either of them (floptical or Syquest), depending on when the flopticals are ready and if I test them which performs better, etc., but I presume I'll get a floptical. -- /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! ULTIMA VI GS -mail me. CDs-mail me\ \ McIntosh Junior: The Power to Crush the Other Kids. /
anarch@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (The Anarch) (04/15/91)
In article <m0jRbNY-000050C@jartel.info.com> whitewolf@gnh-starport.cts.com (Tae Song) writes: >The Insite drive hold only around 20MB, and is/was suppose to cost about $250 >or so. I think Brier took over teh 20MB drive, I don't know full story, I use >to keep on both type of drive. In article <14448@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >[...] > Anyway, the floptical drive is A MUCH MUCH MUCH better deal. >For LESS money, you get the drive, which is at most 1/2 the size of >the Syquest-based drives. This month's MacUser has a brief report on the floptical drives as part of an article on large-capacity removable media and says that they are due out very soon but gives a price of around $750 for them. -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-anarch@dartmouth.edu+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall, And universal darkness buries all. D I S C L A I M E R : E V E R Y T H I N G I W R I T E I S F A L S E
anarch@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (The Anarch) (04/16/91)
In article <1991Apr14.202548.20064@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> I wrote: > This month's MacUser has a brief report on the floptical drives ... Sorry about that; it's actually in MacWorld. And it only mentions the Insite drive. There is an interesting bit of new information, though: it says that the drive will read and write Mac 800K and 1.4M floppies and IBM 720K and 1.44M disks as well as the 20M floptical disks. "In the $750 range" is its price estimate. -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-anarch@dartmouth.edu+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall, And universal darkness buries all. D I S C L A I M E R : E V E R Y T H I N G I W R I T E I S F A L S E