[comp.sys.apple2] Last two posts I read...

crew.wicklein@pro-midnightex.cts.com (Chris Wicklein) (04/07/91)

   Gee Wizz. Does TWGS'ed Mac IIfx mean an accerated (sp?) Mac or a GS with
a TWGS board? Just wondering.
   
   It's not that Apple II technology isn't competitive (a well equiped GS
is on par with a fast '386 running Windows, yet a GS can be purchased as
minimal as a fast //e), it's just that Apple can't set a reasonable price
or market the machine. For the least advertised PC of all time to sell for
14 years (so far) is beyond anything I could have ever imagined before
II-dom. The II is especially well suited to some applications because of
superior performance in area like high speed disk access and sound synth.
   I don't expect the II to last "forever", but the year 2000 isn't
unreasonable.
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giovin@ecs.umass.edu (04/08/91)

>    I don't expect the II to last "forever", but the year 2000 isn't
> unreasonable.

Maybe this year 2000 date was a set goal for Apple.  Notice that 
Appleworks will not allow a year 2000 date to be entered.

Rocky

philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) (04/08/91)

In article <8436@crash.cts.com> crew.wicklein@pro-midnightex.cts.com (Chris Wicklein) writes:
>   
>   It's not that Apple II technology isn't competitive (a well equiped GS
>is on par with a fast '386 running Windows

Look I really like my Zip'd GS and consider the GS a fine, if very
overpriced, micro. However, you can't be serious when comparing a fast
386 from a good company to a GS. A fast 386 running Windows is far
better for most purposes than a GS. I am simply fortunate that these
didn't exist when I obtained a GS. Otherwise, I simply would not have
been able to make a reasonable case for the GS.

The GS, out of the box, can't even run its native OS properly. It's
simply a disgrace. At the most a GS designed to run its OS properly
would be worth the price of a Mac Classic. I must tell you that the
GS is, at this time, probably the worst price/performance computer
on the market. Apple should be ashamed of itself.

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.utoronto.ca

mvk@itsgw.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) (04/08/91)

In article <1991Apr7.233439.11058@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>The GS, out of the box, can't even run its native OS properly. It's
>simply a disgrace. At the most a GS designed to run its OS properly
>would be worth the price of a Mac Classic. I must tell you that the
>GS is, at this time, probably the worst price/performance computer
>on the market. Apple should be ashamed of itself.
>
>Philip McDunnough
>philip@utstat.utoronto.ca

If you mean that out of the box, the GS doesn't have a disk drive, and thus
can't load GS/OS, then I'd have to agree.  But 1.125 Meg and 2.8 MHz is plenty
to run  GS/OS.  More is nice, and necessary if you're doing audio / video
digitizing.  But for most people, 1.125 is adequate.

A GS / monitor / disk drive combination about the same price as a Mac Classic
would be a hot seller.  True, it doesn't have the raw power of the Classic, but
it does have things (graphics, sound) the Classic can't touch.  Don't under-
estimate this.  Once you experience it, it's hard to go back.

I can't tell you the number of people who have walked into my room and said,
"A Mac IIGS, is that one of the new ones?  Wow."

Michael Kent                                       mvk@itsgw.rpi.edu

P.S.  How do I add a signature with rn?


-- 
Michael Kent                                  mvk@itsgw.rpi.edu
McDonnell Douglas                             Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
St. Louis, Missouri                           Troy, New York
                               Apple II Forever!

philip@yunexus.yorku.ca (Phil McDunnough) (04/09/91)

In article <2_bg0fn@rpi.edu> mvk@itsgw.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes:
>In article <1991Apr7.233439.11058@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>The GS, out of the box, can't even run its native OS properly. It's
>>simply a disgrace. At the most a GS designed to run its OS properly
>>would be worth the price of a Mac Classic. I must tell you that the
>>GS is, at this time, probably the worst price/performance computer
>>on the market. Apple should be ashamed of itself.

>If you mean that out of the box, the GS doesn't have a disk drive, and thus
>can't load GS/OS, then I'd have to agree.  But 1.125 Meg and 2.8 MHz is plenty
>to run  GS/OS.  More is nice, and necessary if you're doing audio / video
>digitizing.  But for most people, 1.125 is adequate.

That is not what I mean. I realize 1.125 is adequate( but you really need
more) memory. What I was referring to is the cpu speed. The GS at 2.8MHz
is not fast enough to run GS/OS applications, without becoming very
impatient( and I am not a speed freak). The computer really needs at least
a 5 or 6 MHz processor.

>A GS / monitor / disk drive combination about the same price as a Mac Classic
>would be a hot seller.  True, it doesn't have the raw power of the Classic, but
>it does have things (graphics, sound) the Classic can't touch.  Don't under-
>estimate this.  Once you experience it, it's hard to go back.

Yes, I agree with you. The GS package should be priced at most around the
price of a Classic( assuming the GS's processor was faster). I really like
my GS. As for the Classic, it appears to be selling well. I wouldn't use
the term "raw power" and Mac in the same sentence.

>I can't tell you the number of people who have walked into my room and said,
>"A Mac IIGS, is that one of the new ones?  Wow."

If only Apple would survey those people.

>Michael Kent                                       mvk@itsgw.rpi.edu

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.utoronto.ca

SHBOUM@MACALSTR.EDU (04/14/91)

	Rocky in an earlier article writes...

>>    I don't expect the II to last "forever", but the year 2000 isn't
>> unreasonable.

> Maybe this year 2000 date was a set goal for Apple.  Notice that
> Appleworks will not allow a year 2000 date to be entered.
 
	Nahh, I don't think that Apple even thought it was going to last
that long. Way back in 1981-1982, when the Apple /// and Lisa were the
Apple's experiments, the first few versions of ProDOS could only handle
dates from 1981-1984. So when 1984 came rolling around, everyone's clock
reset back to 1981!!!! {Well hey, after the Lisa came out, no one would
in their right mind would by a II, right?}

						- Hal

| Hal Bouma				| Send mail to: SHBoum@Macalstr.edu
| Macalester College			| and 		SHBoum@Macalstr.Bitnet
| GEnie: H.Bouma			| ".Sig Under Construction..."

kenfair@snowy.rice.edu (Kenneth Jason Fair) (04/16/91)

In article <22324@yunexus.YorkU.CA> philip@yunexus.yorku.ca (Phil McDunnough) writes:
>
>>I can't tell you the number of people who have walked into my room and said,
>>"A Mac IIGS, is that one of the new ones?  Wow."

As for myself, I've taking to punching them out.  It seems that NO
ONE, especially Mac owners, have even HEARD of the Apple II line.  I
get the last laugh, though, when I show them what my modestly upgraded
GS can do.  Especially demos by FTA and the new 3200 color routines.
The more 3200 becomes a standard, the better.

As for the piracy/suport debate:  Piracy helped, if anything, make the
Apple II such a popular computer.  But that's because Apple supported
it.

From what I've heard talking to software publishers and game
designers, they don't want to put money into a computer that's not
being supported.  Only reasonable business practice.

Actually, that's not quite true.  There are plenty of game designers
still writing great software for the IIGS.  The problem is, they can't
get any companies to support their work.  That's why you're seeing
lots of shareware now.

C'mon Apple, get on the ball!

(Andy, prod the higher-ups a bit for us!!)

Ken



--
+-----------------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
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 collapse electron probability waveforms."- Fair      |       Mr Toaster

SHBOUM@MACALSTR.EDU (04/21/91)

In an earlier article, Kenneth Fair writes:

>>In article <22324@yunexus.YorkU.CA> philip@yunexus.yorku.ca (Phil McDunnough)
 writes:
>>I can't tell you the number of people who have walked into my room and said,
>>"A Mac IIGS, is that one of the new ones?  Wow."
 
> As for myself, I've taking to punching them out.  It seems that NO
> ONE, especially Mac owners, have even HEARD of the Apple II line.  I
> get the last laugh, though, when I show them what my modestly upgraded
> GS can do.  Especially demos by FTA and the new 3200 color routines.
> The more 3200 becomes a standard, the better.

	This fact has always been a disapointing fact of how good of a job
Apple has done in hiding up its original computer. Even 3 years ago, when our
high school purchased a GS for our music department and we had it in the lab
for a bit, we had to place a sign on it saying "THIS IS NOT A MACINTOSH"
because so many people would put their disks into it thinking it was
a mac. And here at college {I am again the ONLY IIGS owner} and again
lots of people come in while hearing Modulae's music come pouring out and say
"Cool! What is that? IIGS?? When did that come out?" Its so sad that no one
knows what it is, but there's hope because people still think that its cool...
Now if we can get Apple to think this too...

							- Hal

| Hal Bouma				| Send mail to: SHBoum@Macalstr.edu
| Macalester College			| and 		SHBoum@Macalstr.Bitnet
| GEnie: H.Bouma			| ".Sig Under Construction..."