twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu (Tye W. Botting, aka Warlock) (04/23/91)
This is getting a bit ridiculous. Making Andy and/or Dave defend and/or explain Apple's intent with the GS, at any level beyond what has already been released by Apple, is totally out of line. Here are a couple of guys working hard on GS stuff and taking time out to help with tech questions and feel the Apple // society out. They are not policy-makers nor are they our spies. If you have some questions or comments about the way Apple is currently treating the // line, direct them to the *proper* people at Apple, not to these hard-working people just because they're _here_. Geez! These two seem to care about the same stuff we do, so why alienate them? To Andy and Dave: I, for one, thank you for your help here, as well as your patience with the peops here on comp.sys.apple2.paranoia. Perhaps we have too many of the alt.coonspiracy subsribers here... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- TWB5024@venus.tamu.edu Warlock BOTTING@tamcomp twb5024@tamsumma Tye Botting -----------------------------------------------------------------------
daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Huang) (04/23/91)
In article <15158@helios.TAMU.EDU> twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu writes: > > This is getting a bit ridiculous. Making Andy and/or Dave defend >and/or explain Apple's intent with the GS, at any level beyond what has >already been released by Apple, is totally out of line. Here are a couple Indeed! Didn't something like this happen a year or so ago? People were complaining about Apple's lack of support of the IIs and all that stuff. I think that's why we don't hear much from Matt Deatherage (sp?) anymore :( >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >TWB5024@venus.tamu.edu Warlock BOTTING@tamcomp >twb5024@tamsumma Tye Botting >----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- David Huang | Internet: daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "How much is that hamster UUCP: ..!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daveh | in the window?" America Online: DrWho29 |
declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) (04/24/91)
In article <47707@ut-emx.uucp>, daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Huang) writes: > > Indeed! Didn't something like this happen a year or so ago? People > were complaining about Apple's lack of support of the IIs and all that > stuff. I think that's why we don't hear much from Matt Deatherage > (sp?) anymore :( Correct. There's no surer way to turn people against you if you abuse them when they're donating their time. I'd like to thank Andy and Dave for helping out the Apple II community by spending their time on this newsgroup... -Declan
lucifer@world.std.com (Kevin S Green) (04/24/91)
In article <15158@helios.TAMU.EDU> twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu writes: [...edited for brevity...] > To Andy and Dave: I, for one, thank you for your help here, as >well as your patience with the peops here on comp.sys.apple2.paranoia. >Perhaps we have too many of the alt.coonspiracy subsribers here... Ditto. Folks, the way to keep this 'paranoia' from csa2 is two-fold: 1) Ignore those messages that have a baseless sense of dread (Oh... John Sculley blinked wrong when talking about the Apple //..we're doomed.) Ignoring the messages means no responses at all...no quoting, no references, etc. This will have the effect of robbing those doom-and-gloomers their spotlight to whine in. 2) POST PRODUCTIVE MESSAGES. Messages on how to work around compiler bugs, messages on using the toolbox more effectively, messages referring people to companies that do a good job of supporting us... -- Kevin S. Green / lucifer@world.std.com / {xylogics;uunet}!world!lucifer
lhaider@pro-nbs.cts.com (Laer Haider) (04/24/91)
In-Reply-To: message from twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu > This is getting a bit ridiculous. Making Andy and/or Dave defend >and/or explain Apple's intent with the GS, at any level beyond what has >already been released by Apple, is totally out of line. Here are a couple >of guys working hard on GS stuff and taking time out to help with tech ... > To Andy and Dave: I, for one, thank you for your help here, as >well as your patience with the peops here on comp.sys.apple2.paranoia. >Perhaps we have too many of the alt.coonspiracy subsribers here... Well, it sure did get a nice response from Andy and Dave, didn't it? ;) Seriously, the remarks and complaints about Apple are the result of the crap we II users have been put through over the past few years. No one is blaming Andy or Dave. I think the blame has been put squarely and rightly on Apple, Inc. There's no need for anyone (including Andy and Dave, or even Matt for that matter) to work up a huff over it. Nice explanations, or even bad explanations, of what's going on is something all of us on the net are hungry for. I appreciate what those at Apple II DTS and all the II software guys are doing for us. I don't think ANYONE here feels otherwise. We would all just like to see something positive released; and more of it. The Apple II isn't keeping up with the world you know. I'd just like to get a little closer to everyone else's machine. BTW, Geez, do you kiss butt like that all the time? / _______________________________________________ \ / / ProLine: pro-nbs!lhaider \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-nbs.cts.com \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-nbs!lhaider \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-nbs!lhaider@nosc.mil \ /// <//` BITNET: lhaider%pro-nbs.cts.com@nosc.mil / >> \\\`__/_ /,)-^>>\` , \\\ The opinions express here are just opinions. (/ \\ /\\\ Don't have a cow man! // _//\\\\ ----------------------------------------------- ((` ((
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (04/25/91)
In article <2136.apple.a2.net@pro-nbs> lhaider@pro-nbs.cts.com (Laer Haider) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu > >> This is getting a bit ridiculous. Making Andy and/or Dave defend >>and/or explain Apple's intent with the GS, at any level beyond what has >>already been released by Apple, is totally out of line. Here are a couple >>of guys working hard on GS stuff and taking time out to help with tech >... > >Seriously, the remarks and complaints about Apple are the result of the >crap we II users have been put through over the past few years. No one >is blaming Andy or Dave. I think the blame has been put squarely and >rightly on Apple, Inc. There's no need for anyone (including Andy and >Dave, or even Matt for that matter) to work up a huff over it. Nice >explanations, or even bad explanations, of what's going on is something >all of us on the net are hungry for. > >I appreciate what those at Apple II DTS and all the II software guys are >doing for us. I don't think ANYONE here feels otherwise. We would all just >like to see something positive released; and more of it. The Apple II isn't >keeping up with the world you know. I'd just like to get a little closer to >everyone else's machine. > On the contrary. The reason I left this newsgroup nearly a year ago and haven't been back is that I was receiving both public and private messages from various individuals from comp.sys.apple2 stating quite clearly that they DID hold me personally responsible for Apple's lack of action, and that if I went to sleep at night when there was more that could be done, I was a slacker, a conspirator, a Mac- drone, another Apple corporate brainwash, etc., etc. These were not people who came and left comp.sys.apple2 like gay-bashers on soc.motss. These are people who are still prolific and have posted within the past several days. And they are the reason that, with very occasional dalliances like yesterday and today, I still don't read this group. >BTW, Geez, do you kiss butt like that all the time? I don't even know who wrote the original message because I don't hang around comp.sys.apple2 anymore. But I'm glad he did, so get off his back.
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (04/25/91)
On Tue, 23 Apr 91 23:59:28 GMT Kevin S Green said: >In article <15158@helios.TAMU.EDU> twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu writes: > >2) POST PRODUCTIVE MESSAGES. Messages on how to work around >compiler bugs, messages on using the toolbox more effectively, >messages referring people to companies that do a good job of >supporting us... ...and ignore the prblem and it will just go away? I agree that there are alot of gloomy messages here, but ignoring the problem isn't going to make it go away. Trying to do something about it... like pointing out some things that could possibly get worse if nobody does anything about certaintly can't hurt. In the long run, we just might be able to convince a company to write a compiler that we can talk about working around. >-- >Kevin S. Green / lucifer@world.std.com / {xylogics;uunet}!world!lucifer ---------------------------------------- BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm <------------send files here pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
neufeld@aurora.physics.utoronto.ca (Christopher Neufeld) (04/25/91)
In article <9104250048.AA26854@apple.com> MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET writes: >On Tue, 23 Apr 91 23:59:28 GMT Kevin S Green said: >>In article <15158@helios.TAMU.EDU> twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu writes: >> >>2) POST PRODUCTIVE MESSAGES. Messages on how to work around >>compiler bugs, messages on using the toolbox more effectively, >>messages referring people to companies that do a good job of >>supporting us... > >In the long run, we just might be >able to convince a company to write a compiler that we can talk about >working around. > Go out and buy the ORCA/C compiler. It's definitely worth the money. There are bugs, but I haven't found one I couldn't work around. The compiler is a product of Byte Works Inc. > pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com -- Christopher Neufeld....Just a graduate student | Flash: morning star seen neufeld@aurora.physics.utoronto.ca Ad astra! | in evening! Baffled cneufeld@{pnet91,pro-cco}.cts.com | astronomers: "could mean "Don't edit reality for the sake of simplicity" | second coming of Elvis!"
lhaider@pro-nbs.cts.com (Laer Haider) (04/26/91)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM >> This is getting a bit ridiculous. Making Andy and/or Dave defend >>>and/or explain Apple's intent with the GS, at any level beyond what has >>>already been released by Apple, is totally out of line. Here are a couple >>>of guys working hard on GS stuff and taking time out to help with tech >>... >> >>Seriously, the remarks and complaints about Apple are the result of the >>crap we II users have been put through over the past few years. No one >>is blaming Andy or Dave. I think the blame has been put squarely and >>rightly on Apple, Inc. There's no need for anyone (including Andy and >>Dave, or even Matt for that matter) to work up a huff over it. Nice >>explanations, or even bad explanations, of what's going on is something >>all of us on the net are hungry for. >> >>I appreciate what those at Apple II DTS and all the II software guys are >>doing for us. I don't think ANYONE here feels otherwise. We would all just >>like to see something positive released; and more of it. The Apple II isn't >>keeping up with the world you know. I'd just like to get a little closer to >>everyone else's machine. >> >On the contrary. > >The reason I left this newsgroup nearly a year ago and haven't been back is >that I was receiving both public and private messages from variousindividuals >from comp.sys.apple2 stating quite clearly that they DID hold me personally >responsible for Apple's lack of action, and that if I went to sleep at night >when there was more that could be done, I was a slacker, a conspirator,a Mac- >drone, another Apple corporate brainwash, etc., etc. > >These were not people who came and left comp.sys.apple2 like gay-bashers on >soc.motss. These are people who are still prolific and have posted withinthe >past several days. And they are the reason that, with very occasional >alliances like yesterday and today, I still don't read this group. > >>BTW, Geez, do you kiss butt like that all the time? > >I don't even know who wrote the original message because I don't hang around >comp.sys.apple2 anymore. But I'm glad he did, so get off his back. Matt, I'm truly sorry you were and are harassed by Apple users like you say. It is a sad comment on the Apple II community. I feel those that are harrassing you are just venting their anger and disappointment at the easiest target. I'm sorry you were targeted. But, you're taking the point of my post all wrong. By "getting a little closer to other people's machines" (and I'm certain MOST Apple II users didn't misunderstand this), I didn't be to become LIKE them; but rather to see advancements in systems and performance improvements from hardware as well as software, and to see some support from the industry and possibly an upgrade path (yes, MS-DOS boxes CAN upgrade. It's called swapping out a motherboard and keeping most of your original system), and just MAYBE getting a decent aspect ratio on the screen (my biggest gripe, nothing against you). Maybe by reading the newsgroup, and trying to see it from a common user perspective, you'll start to see our frustration. You don't have to participate, we'll still go on. Just try to see our desires and hopes for the future. From your position, just maybe you can influence the corporation a little towards meeting our desires. BTW, I'm the original poster. Get off his back? twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu (whatever his name is) e-mailed me, agreeing that it looked like butt kissing once he read what he posted. Did you like it? (oh, come on Matt. Don't get in a huff 0:) / _______________________________________________ \ / / ProLine: pro-nbs!lhaider \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-nbs.cts.com \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-nbs!lhaider \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-nbs!lhaider@nosc.mil \ /// <//` BITNET: lhaider%pro-nbs.cts.com@nosc.mil / >> \\\`__/_ /,)-^>>\` , \\\ The opinions express here are just opinions. (/ \\ /\\\ Don't have a cow man! // _//\\\\ ----------------------------------------------- ((` ((