gtolar@xcluud.sccsi.com (Glynne Tolar) (05/03/91)
This question is to anybody at Apple who will dare address it. I talked to Andrew at CV Technoligies eariler today. He explained to me in what I caused to be a lengthy conversation that he was a developer that paied the $600 a year (yes, I know it is now $300 and I did correct him) and he said "And you know what I get for the $600? A bunch of Mac crap." Now no flame here Matt but what is the deal? My personal observation...That is Apple's idea of Apple II developer support. Send Mac developement materals, develope on the Mac (for II software, how strange). Explains the 2 Macs in Andy's cube. I'm beginning to wonder if 1) Apple II hardware engineers exist anymore, and 2) if Apple II software engineers are just trainees for future jobs in Mac developement. Again, Apple's idea of support. Don't get me wrong guys. I like the fict you're doing something. Problem is, should be settle for just the bones Apple throws our way or is their going to be any meet anytime. We don't care, we don't have to. We're Apple computer. ----------------------- OR ----------------------------- Apple II forever. I just love hearing the company LInE. Pick your favorite. gtolar@xcluud.sccsi.com I didn't write the organization or path. I just use it.
rhyde@clemente.ucr.edu (randy hyde) (05/04/91)
The reason Apple wants you to develop for the GS on the Mac is because it's faster! ORCA software is incredibly slow. Considering LISA/816 assembles at about 100,000 lines/minute, there is no execuse for ORCA running as slow as it does. I've talked to Brian Fitzgerald about LISA/816. He is going to let me post it here at UCR via anonymous FTP. In return, he expects some feedback on the product. I can answer most questions. The ones I can't, I'll pass along to him. Should have LISA available within a couple of days at ucrmath.ucr.edu in the "PC" subdirectory. Should be two files then, LISA.SHK and ANIX.SHK. LISA is the assembler, macro files, and some sample sources; ANIX is a shell interpreter I did for the GS (never finished though, beware!), a *fast* console driver with windows, a utility package (want printf in ASM, it's there!), and other goodies. *** randy hyde
rhyde@ucrmath.ucr.edu (randy hyde) (05/04/91)
LISA/816 and ANIX are now available via anonymous ftp. ucrmath.ucr.edu PC subdirectory ANIX.SHK & LISA.SHK Happy programming! *** Randy Hyde
dlyons@Apple.COM (David A. Lyons) (05/04/91)
In article <9JXc23w164w@xcluud.sccsi.com> gtolar@xcluud.sccsi.com (Glynne Tolar) writes: >[...] >I talked to Andrew at CV Technoligies eariler today. He explained to me in >what I caused to be a lengthy conversation that he was a developer that >paied the $600 a year (yes, I know it is now $300 and I did correct him) and >he said "And you know what I get for the $600? A bunch of Mac crap." Now >no flame here Matt but what is the deal? That picture of the Apple Partners program is incomplete. For $300 you get a monthly mailing, including Apple II Technical Notes every other month (for $600 you get Macintosh Technical Notes in the other other months). You get significant discounts on a limited (not tiny) amount of equipment per year. You get official access to Developer Technical Support. >My personal observation...That is Apple's idea of Apple II developer >support. Send Mac developement materals, develope on the Mac (for II >software, how strange). Explains the 2 Macs in Andy's cube. If you want to see things that way, I can't convince you not to. Here's how I see it: (1) Sounds like CV Technologies paid their $600 and is receiving information on both the Macintosh and Apple II lines. And they're probably getting LOTS of Macintosh stuff--not surprising considering the impending release of System 7.0, etc. (2) Developing Apple II software on a Macintosh is not at all strange. It's not the solution for everybody. For me and my coworkers it's the obvious choice because of the following things I can do on a Mac running MPW that I can't do on a GS, at least not with today's hardware and software: (a) Use a 20-inch screen with many windows open. (b) Use the Projector project-management system to make sure only one person is using a given source file at one time, and to provide access to the "history" of our source code ("Not all changes are improvements"). (c) Rebuild large software modules quickly. (d) Keep the GS systems free to test out the latest-and-greatest version every time I make some changes. I use an 8 Meg Macintosh IIci at work. So what? >[...] if Apple II software engineers are just trainees for future jobs in Mac >developement. Not me. >[...] Problem is, should be settle for just >the bones Apple throws our way or is their going to be any meet anytime. (Loaded question? Nah....) My opinion: You should continually be as productive as possible with whatever is available, paying little attention to gloom-and-doom rumors *or* "System 12.0 / ROM 42" rumors. -- David A. Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems Apple II System Software Engineer | P.O. Box 875 America Online: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie:DAVE.LYONS CompuServe:72177,3233 Internet:dlyons@apple.com My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
vw3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Vernon Williams) (05/04/91)
In article <9JXc23w164w@xcluud.sccsi.com> gtolar@xcluud.sccsi.com (Glynne Tolar) writes: >This question is to anybody at Apple who will dare address it. > >I talked to Andrew at CV Technoligies eariler today. He explained to me in >what I caused to be a lengthy conversation that he was a developer that >paied the $600 a year (yes, I know it is now $300 and I did correct him) and >he said "And you know what I get for the $600? A bunch of Mac crap." Now >no flame here Matt but what is the deal? I think that this means that he's not an Apple II Developer (at least in Apple's eyes) Did he specify that he only wanted to be an Apple II developer? I think it costs less and you don't have to wade though lots of mac literature. > >My personal observation...That is Apple's idea of Apple II developer >support. Send Mac developement materals, develope on the Mac (for II >software, how strange). Explains the 2 Macs in Andy's cube. I've seen what Andy does with his mac(s). He uses the cross-development system. I beleive he told me that he liked the set-up as it freed up his IIGS so he could do nifty things with it. > >I'm beginning to wonder if 1) Apple II hardware engineers exist anymore, and >2) if Apple II software engineers are just trainees for future jobs in Mac >developement. Again, Apple's idea of support. Don't get me wrong guys. I >like the fict you're doing something. Problem is, should be settle for just >the bones Apple throws our way or is their going to be any meet anytime. I think you should get all the facts before you get quite so upset. While Apple doesn't support the Apple II in the same way it does the mac, it does support it. How soon we forget the VOC, HyperCard IIGS, System 5.0.x... These aren't usefull for everyone, but does suggest that there is still some interest in the II. What was the last thing you did to support the Apple II line? (Actually I'm sure you've done something...I'm just asking this semi-retorically) > >We don't care, we don't have to. We're Apple computer. I care, as do many others...(many of them Apple employees) that should count for something >----------------------- OR ----------------------------- >Apple II forever. I just love hearing the company LInE. Nothing is forever, but I 'm sure my machine will be around for a little while (I still find uses for it and am more comfortable with it than with any other computer I've used so far) > Pick your favorite. gtolar@xcluud.sccsi.com >I didn't write the organization or path. I just use it. +---------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+ |Vernon L. Williams | Electronic Mail: vw3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu | |ChemLink Customer Support | Campus Mail: no longer on campus | |Chemical Bank | Phone Mail: no phonemail either |