joseph@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Seymour Joseph) (05/16/91)
Hi Apple II junkies! I finally got my copy of Electronic Art's "The Immortal" today. It wasn't easy. As I reported last week, Electronic Arts stopped shipping ALL of its Apple II (includes GS) products in February or March. (Since "The Immortal" only shipped in December or January, I think it may hold some kind of record for the software with the shortest lifespan, even shorter than RASTAN... Sigh ) I called every software vendor that advertised in Incider A+ June issue. Even the ones that advertised the immortal could say nothing more than "Its discontinued, we don't have any copies and we can't get any more." I called Electronic Arts directly and was informed that they don't have any copies left either. Today I checked all my local retail stores. I walked into Egghead to check there. This store has never had a big Apple II section, but they always had a modest selection and would order stuff if I wanted it. Today the shelves are almost empty, and all the remaining software is marked down 30-60%. I asked what was up and the clerk (mis)informed me: "Apple has disconinued all the Apple II computers so Egghead isn't carrying software for them anymore." I told her that I was pretty in-touch and that Apple had made no such announcement. She asked the manager and he claimed that whether the machine had been cancelled or not, all Egghead stores nationwide have been ordered to sell off what they can and then return all their remaining Apple II software in the next week or so. They will no longer carry or order anything for the Apple II. I checked two more Egghead stores in my area, one had a copy of "The Immortal" in the clearance bin for $20 (bargain! yea) and BOTH had cleared out almost all of their Apple II software and had the same understanding as the first store. (i.e. that Apple had cancelled production and sales of all Apple II computers so Egghead won't be carrying the software anymore.) The Things I learned: 1) If you have been thinking of picking up some Apple IIGS software, do it NOW! It is getting harder and harder to find. You may find some big bargains, but they are little consolation for the lack of new software coming down the pike. 2) Sales of Apple II software must be really slow. Even if Apple had discontinued the product line (which, as far as I know, they haven't) there are still millions of installed machines. Unless Apple knows a way to blow up all the installed Apple IIs by remote control if/when they discontinue making new ones, there would still be a market for Apple II software. It must be that a great number of Apple II owners simply aren't buying software. They sit at home running AppleWorks and Print Shop and never even realize that their machines are capable of so much more. I must put some of the blame for this on the lack of advertising for most Apple II software products. In the last few years, products were just released, no ads, no promotion, nothing. It was up to the Apple II owner to go out and find out what was available. If InCider/A+ didn't review software, even people that read that magazine wouldn't know what 90% of the currently available software was. 3) Even though Apple Continues to manufacture, sell, develop system software for and provide minimal marketing lip service to the Apple II, we are all but orphans already. The "dry" years that began two or three years ago, with little support, no advertising and no significant CPU upgrades have killed off the Apple II in the hearts and minds of most of the computer world. It makes little difference that there are people at Apple hard at work on Apple IIGS System 6.0, or that the machines are still being manufactured and sold. In the minds of the vast majority of people who build and sell hardware, or write and distribute software, the machine is already dead. I am pretty darn happy with my Apple IIGS. I find new things it can do almost every week, and I love it. I intend to keep using and enjoying my Apple IIGS quite a while longer. I am eager to see System 6.0 and other suprises down the road, but I am very concerned that there will be no one left to develop, or market software that runs under it. I sometimes think (rationalize, rationalize) that the sharp downturn in support for the Apple IIGS is tied to the tough economic times we are living in. Companies HAVE to cut corners and we (Apple II owners) are the easiest corner to cut. I have hopes that when the market in general improves, and if Apple continues to support the Apple II despite the doom and gloom, there will be a renaissanse for us to enjoy. Apple II Forever Keep the faith... Seymour Joseph P.S. Sorry for rambling on so long..
mhill@pnet91.cts.com (Martin Hill) (05/16/91)
> 3) Even though Apple Continues to manufacture, sell, develop system > software for and provide minimal marketing lip service to the Apple > II, we are all but orphans already. The "dry" years that began two or > three years ago, with little support, no advertising and no > significant CPU upgrades have killed off the Apple II in the hearts > and minds of most of the computer world. It makes little difference > that there are people at Apple hard at work on Apple IIGS System 6.0, > or that the machines are still being manufactured and sold. In the > minds of the vast majority of people who build and sell hardware, or > write and distribute software, the machine is already dead. I've given up looking for new IIgs software, because I know that there simply will not be any more (commercial, that is). Nobody wants to support the GS because of Apple's (management, not DTS) attitude. There's just very little money to gain compared with PC clones and Macs and it's always tricky to port software over. A couple of years ago I could always hope that something new was jusr around the corner, and occasionally something good would come out, about once in 3 months. Now I've completely lost hope that software will be developed for the IIgs. The way I see it, the Apple II's is entirely in the hands of the owners and the dedicated people at Apple II DTS. Any future software will have to be written by users and distributed as freeware or shareware. What the GS needs most right now is development software, and it seems we've been getting just that in the last year or two. The Apple II community will probably continue to shrink until the only ones left are the hackers. It's not that the machine is dead, just moving towards a different purpose. I'll continue to use and program my GS until I can afford to upgrade to a higher platform - like a NeXT - but that's probably 2 years down the road at least. Whatever I do, my GS will be the last Apple product I ever own. UUCP: bkj386!pnet91!mhill INET: mhill@pnet91.cts.com
nagendra@bucsf.bu.edu (nagendra mishr) (05/17/91)
Let's nopt worry too much here, I think that there are a lot of people getting into the "TOOLBOX" and we will do what we can to write stuff. But worst comes to worst, We've enjoyed our computers and we still have them. We'll just have to use the Apple experience to influence our next computer user groups. There will be tales of how good our Apple was. Tales about Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, Bards Tale, Captain Goodbody, Crossfire, Steller 7, Aztec, Sabotage, Wavy Navy, .... The list is huge. nagendra
ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (05/17/91)
The April issue of Compute! had an article about the low cost Macs. The president of Spinnaker claimed that "educators were scrambling to cancel orders for the Apple IIGS and get the Mac LC instead". Of course he was biased, but I'm sure he heard it somewhere, the question is does anyone KNOW the truth of this? I think that considering the price differential, most teachers would go this route judging by the slavering some of them were doing two years ago at Apple Expo. At that time, only the high price of a decent system kept them from changing (and no Apple II compatibility of course). I doubt tha tApple has cancelled the II line just yet, however the GS is produced in an automated factory that is being retooled for the LC (and I assume the Classic and si), so as demand for the LC increases, factory time for the GS will likely be cut back reducing supplies and this might be what they are referring to. Or not. I don't know any more that anybody else, but certainly wish I had some hard figures of Apple II sales in 1990 and software sales broken down by system and type. Any takers? UUCP: bkj386!pnet91!ericmcg INET: ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (05/17/91)
In article <NAGENDRA.91May16154857@bucsf.bu.edu> nagendra@bucsf.bu.edu (nagendra mishr) writes: >Let's nopt worry too much here, I think that there are a lot of people >getting into the "TOOLBOX" and we will do what we can to write stuff. I dunno, I think we should kind of get worried about this. I really don't go to software stores much, but it seems to me that Egghead is/was one of the last major software stores (or computer stores in general) to have a halfway-decent selection of Apple II stuff. That's BAD news. Most of us here get some magazines and are pretty hip on the (virtually nonexistant) new software that comes out, yet other people are not... So this can 'validly' be taken as a bad sign and not just unnecessary complaining, I think. >But worst comes to worst, We've enjoyed our computers and we still >have them. We'll just have to use the Apple experience to influence >our next computer user groups. There will be tales of how good our >Apple was. Tales about Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, Bards Tale, Captain >Goodbody, Crossfire, Steller 7, Aztec, Sabotage, Wavy Navy, .... Captain Goodbody?? wasn't it Captain Goodheart or Captain Goodnight or something like that? (Captain Goodnight sounds right now).. I think that was supposed to be a series of games, from what they said when you win the game... Ohwell.. Maybe one of the programmers on here'll make a GS version, just like the cool GS version of Lode Runner! -- /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! unknown@cats.ucsc.edu\ |WANT to help get ULTIMA VI //e or GS written?-mail me. CHEAP CD info-mail me.| \ It's a Late Night World.... Of Love /
calumw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Calum A. Wilkie ) (05/18/91)
Perhaps the returning of the Apple // into the hackers hands is a good
thing, I've seen a lot of crap software come out, and that can't be good
for a computer's name. I for one am not willing to pay money for
useless software, and perhaps developers don't quite understand that
$40-$50 is alot of money.
There has been a lot of brilliant software for the apple, stuff that I
still play today is 10 years old ... and brilliant. With the machine's
future returning to those who use it daily, there will be plenty more
GOOD and EXCELLENT software packages available.
Just because the // is an 8 bit (pardon me, gs) machine in this world of
32 bit machines , it doesn't mean that it can't do any of the things
that we want it to.
Calum A. Wilkie <-> calumw@castle.ed.ac.uk <-> Edinburgh University
lucifer@world.std.com (Kevin S Green) (05/18/91)
Just to add my 2 cents worth:
Today I went into the Egghead near my office to see if I could
get some good deals on software before they supposedly got
rid of their // software. Guess what...they not only didn't
have _any_ software, they didn't even have a section for it
anymore!
I asked the clerk and he said all the // stuff had been "
shipped out". Oh well...just another reason to learn to
program my own stuff.
--
Kevin S. Green / lucifer@world.std.com / {xylogics;uunet}!world!luciferjimmys@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Jimmy Shaw) (05/18/91)
I went down to the nearest Egghead after class today, and found a heck of a bargain: They had a copy of Star Saga I: Beyond the Boundary for $6.99! that's right, Six Dollars and 99 cents! Needless to say, I was pretty pleased. And I asked the clerk if the news about Egghead discontinuing all Apple II softwares, and he confirmed it. Jimmy Shaw jimmys@ics.uci.edu
ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (05/19/91)
>Perhaps the returning of the Apple // into the hackers hands is a good >thing, I've seen a lot of crap software come out, and that can't be good >for a computer's name. I for one am not willing to pay money for >useless software, and perhaps developers don't quite understand that >$40-$50 is alot of money. > > Calum A. Wilkie <-> calumw@castle.ed.ac.uk <-> Edinburgh University It doesn't seem to have hurt IBM any. :) 90% of the "latest and greatest" IBM software is just rehash of Apple II and Mac stuff years old. There are some very notable exceptions, but the majority is crap that would not sell on any other system. UUCP: bkj386!pnet91!ericmcg INET: ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com