SHBOUM@MACALSTR.EDU (05/18/91)
Ok, about 5 days ago, I asked a bunch of questions and NO ONE responded,
so lets try it again...
I'm going to start doing some serious programming for the GS this
summer and with all you Apple gurus out there, I was wondering if you can send
some suggestions my way about how to do real text under GS/OS. Not the slow
graphical text, but the good old fasioned text that has been with us all
along. And I want to have it fast too - ProTerm fast... Also, can a GS/OS
menubar be established in the text enviorment too?
Lastly, is there any good books out there that can teach the mysteries
of the Toolbox in layman terms? I definatly don't want to start off with a
book that resembles the Inside the Macintosh series {ug...what a disaster it
was trying to read those!}
Also, because the desire for Appletalk games has been around, does
the Toolbox refrences carry enough matieral about how to use the Appletalk
drivers, or do I have to purchase another $100 in books in order to give
my NBA game the proper drivers to work over the Appletalk Network? Thanks
for the time everyone!
- Hal
| Hal Bouma | Send mail to: SHBoum@Macalstr.edu |
| Macalester College, St. Paul, MN. | and SHBoum@Macalstr.Bitnet |
| Coming this fall for the //GS: NBA! | GEnie : H.BOUMA |ieeug330@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu (Mark Wistey) (05/18/91)
In article <E898F2CE60200734@MACALSTR.EDU>, SHBOUM@MACALSTR.EDU writes: > I'm going to start doing some serious programming for the GS this Yeah! Always glad to hear that. >some suggestions my way about how to do real text under GS/OS. Not the slow >graphical text, but the good old fasioned text that has been with us all You can do text with TextTools, toolset $0C. Actually, text is nearly as easy under GS/OS as under regular ProDOS - it's just against Apple's "guidelines". (i.e. there's no way to easily set up a menu bar, and mouse movements can't automatically become text cursor movements.) If you really do need fast text, you'll have to use the old familiar routines into bank 0 instead of using TextTools, which means they have to be "shadowed" from $FFF800 to $00F800; there's a bit somewhere to do this, but I can't remember right offhand. As for books, get what you can if it's really technical. You can probably get a discount for Apple II books from most bookstores. I originally got the "Apple IIgs Technical Reference" by Michael Fischer and published by Osborne-McGraw Hill; it's not perfect, but acceptable. Now I have the first two Toolbox volumes--you're free to send mail if you need the syntax for a particular call (these are official Apple stuff). I would also recommend reading old (3+ years?) copies of technical magazines for II's like Call-A.P.P.L.E. or the old InCider, since nearly every magazine did a series on the basics of Toolbox work. I hope one of the real "gurus" gets in touch about using AppleTalk, since I'm clueless there--if you don't get the answers you need, write back and I'll track down what I can, and (maybe) buy the third volume of the Toolbox references, since it deals with AppleTalk, I think. Good luck, and may your bugs be few! - Mark > Lastly, is there any good books out there that can teach the mysteries >of the Toolbox in layman terms? I definatly don't want to start off with a By the way, are you writing in assembly? I don't know how close to "layman terms" you're going to get when discussing the Toolbox. :-) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mark Wistey... gmw1142%msu3.dnet@mtsunix1 (BITNet) | Bicycling, Apple II's, gmw1142%msu3.dnet@terra.oscs.montana.edu (InterNet) | Christ-like living, Quad D, #308, Bozeman, MT 59715, USA (BikeNet) | Music, and Physics :-)
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (05/18/91)
In article <E898F2CE60200734@MACALSTR.EDU> SHBOUM@MACALSTR.EDU writes: > I'm going to start doing some serious programming for the GS this >summer and with all you Apple gurus out there, I was wondering if you can send >some suggestions my way about how to do real text under GS/OS. Not the slow >graphical text, but the good old fasioned text that has been with us all >along. And I want to have it fast too - ProTerm fast... Also, can a GS/OS >menubar be established in the text enviorment too? For the last question, I can give you an answer.. NO, not unless you want to make your own tools to do the work for you.. I can't answer your other questions, sorry, but it definitely can be done, as Prosel 16 and other shells and such do text under GS/OS. > Lastly, is there any good books out there that can teach the mysteries >of the Toolbox in layman terms? I definatly don't want to start off with a >book that resembles the Inside the Macintosh series {ug...what a disaster it >was trying to read those!} Well, there ARE, but you'll need to get the Apple IIGS Toolbox References Volumes I-III anyway, so why waste more money on other books?? These'll cost you enough!! Just like with C, you need to get K&R eventually. Get the "Programmer's Introduction to the Apple IIGS" and the Toolbox Manuals, and you'll be set. (I believe the toolbox manuals DO resemble "Inside the Macintosh".. I think they're both just big reference manuals) The Programmer's Introduction talks about event loops and goes into detail.. I jumped back into the book today so I can hopefully start some programming this weekend... Unfortunately the book is old and I don't believe an update was made.. It all talks about ProDOS 16, and I think there were a few other things that you can tell are different from the situation when the book was published, even if you currently use the computer just from a user perspective.. And all of the examples are in Pascal.. UGGGH! (but full C and assembly listings are in the back of the book, as well as a disk that comes with the book with source & object for the examples) > Also, because the desire for Appletalk games has been around, does >the Toolbox refrences carry enough matieral about how to use the Appletalk >drivers, or do I have to purchase another $100 in books in order to give >my NBA game the proper drivers to work over the Appletalk Network? Thanks >for the time everyone! There's an AppleTalk Reference manual.. I've never seen it though. -- /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! unknown@cats.ucsc.edu\ |WANT to help get ULTIMA VI //e or GS written?-mail me. CHEAP CD info-mail me.| \ It's a Late Night World.... Of Love /
parkern@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Neil Parker) (05/18/91)
In article <00948C2E.77DC7D20@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu> ieeug330@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu (Mark Wistey) writes: >In article <E898F2CE60200734@MACALSTR.EDU>, SHBOUM@MACALSTR.EDU writes: >> I'm going to start doing some serious programming for the GS this >Yeah! Always glad to hear that. > >>some suggestions my way about how to do real text under GS/OS. Not the slow >>graphical text, but the good old fasioned text that has been with us all >You can do text with TextTools, toolset $0C. Actually, text is nearly as >easy under GS/OS as under regular ProDOS - it's just against Apple's >"guidelines". (i.e. there's no way to easily set up a menu bar, and mouse >movements can't automatically become text cursor movements.) If you really >do need fast text, you'll have to use the old familiar routines into bank 0 >instead of using TextTools, which means they have to be "shadowed" from >$FFF800 to $00F800; there's a bit somewhere to do this, but I can't remember >right offhand. The ROM/IO shadowing bit is bit 6 at $C035. Turning it on disables shadowing. I believe it's usually off by default (i.e. ROM/IO shadowing is on--if it weren't, programs which attempt to call _FWEntry or use the I/O area in bank 0 would die horribly). Apple currently recommends against using the Text Tool Set, since it isn't completely compatible with "slot arbiter" scheme. Instead, they recommend using GSOS to do I/O to the .CONSOLE device. The .CONSOLE driver supports a number of powerful formatting commands. If it's raw, unimpeded SPEED you're after, direct access to the video buffers is probably the way to go--that way, you won't have to deal with the overhead of a toolbox or GSOS call. In any case, you'll have to write your own text-based mouse handling routines and menu-bar routines. There is no text-based Menu Manager. > As for books, get what you can if it's really technical. You can >probably get a discount for Apple II books from most bookstores. I >originally got the "Apple IIgs Technical Reference" by Michael Fischer and >published by Osborne-McGraw Hill; it's not perfect, but acceptable. Read Fishcer for his explanations of how toolbox programming works, but don't count on his technical information--it's out-of-date and incomplete. If you want the Whole Truth, get the Toolbox References (which, alas, are lousy tutorials). > I hope one of the real "gurus" gets in touch about using AppleTalk, >since I'm clueless there--if you don't get the answers you need, write back >and I'll track down what I can, and (maybe) buy the third volume of the >Toolbox references, since it deals with AppleTalk, I think. I've got Toolbox Ref. 3, and there's nothing in it about AppleTalk. I think you have to buy a separate manual for that. - Neil Parker (Opinions are solely those of the author, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of anybody else anywhere.) -- Neil Parker No cute ASCII art...no cute quote...no cute parkern@jacobs.cs.orst.edu disclaimer...no deposit, no return... parker@corona.uoregon.edu (This space intentionally left blank: )
daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Huang) (05/19/91)
In article <00948C2E.77DC7D20@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu> ieeug330@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu (Mark Wistey) writes: >In article <E898F2CE60200734@MACALSTR.EDU>, SHBOUM@MACALSTR.EDU writes: >>some suggestions my way about how to do real text under GS/OS. Not the slow >>graphical text, but the good old fasioned text that has been with us all >You can do text with TextTools, toolset $0C. Actually, text is nearly as >easy under GS/OS as under regular ProDOS - it's just against Apple's >"guidelines". (i.e. there's no way to easily set up a menu bar, and mouse >movements can't automatically become text cursor movements.) If you really >do need fast text, you'll have to use the old familiar routines into bank 0 >instead of using TextTools, which means they have to be "shadowed" from >$FFF800 to $00F800; there's a bit somewhere to do this, but I can't remember >right offhand. Ack! TextTools is very slow (unless you have the FasText init). The GS/OS console driver is pretty nifty, and it's relatively fast. -- David Huang | Internet: daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "Help! My ganglion is UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daveh | stuck in some chewing gum!" America Online: DrWho29 |
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (05/20/91)
On Sun, 19 May 91 00:53:33 GMT Dave Huang said: > >Ack! TextTools is very slow (unless you have the FasText init). The >GS/OS console driver is pretty nifty, and it's relatively fast. Great! Would that speed up the ORCA editor? Where can we get this? >-- >David Huang | >Internet: daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "Help! My ganglion is >UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daveh | stuck in some chewing gum!" >America Online: DrWho29 | ---------------------------------------- BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm <------------send files here pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
meekins@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu (Tim Meekins) (05/20/91)
In article <49205@ut-emx.uucp> daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Huang) writes: > >Ack! TextTools is very slow (unless you have the FasText init). The >GS/OS console driver is pretty nifty, and it's relatively fast. > He he he. Just wait..... :) -- ++------------S-U-P-P-O-R-T---S-H-A-R-E-W-A-R-E---O-R---D-I-E-!-----------++ || Tim Meekins || Snail Mail: || Apple II || || meekins@cis.ohio-state.edu || 8372 Morris Rd. || Forever! || \\___timm@pro-tcc.cts.com________/\____Hilliard, OH 43026__/\_____________//