shrinkit@Apple.COM (Andrew Nicholas) (05/09/91)
In article <3522@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: >all i want ... ... is for horizontal/vertical scroll bars to have >color. Any particular color? Or, are you talking about color tables? (which they already have as of system 5.0.x). >albert andy -- Andy Nicholas GEnie & America-Online: shrinkit Apple IIGS System Software CompuServe: 70771,2615 Apple Computer, Inc. InterNET: shrinkit@apple.com
acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) (05/15/91)
In article <52608@apple.Apple.COM> shrinkit@Apple.COM (Andrew Nicholas) writes: ]In article <3522@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: ] ]]all i want ... ... is for horizontal/vertical scroll bars to have ]]color. ] ]Any particular color? Or, are you talking about color tables? (which they ]already have as of system 5.0.x). ] ]]albert ] ]andy ] ]-- ]Andy Nicholas GEnie & America-Online: shrinkit ]Apple IIGS System Software CompuServe: 70771,2615 ]Apple Computer, Inc. InterNET: shrinkit@apple.com do you want to tell me how to do it. if i specify either scroll bar with my window, i don't see where i can specify the colors. now, i think if i create the separate parts of the scroll bar as controls then i can use color tables. however, the former is much easier. i don't want the scroll bars to be just one color. i mean any allowable color, just like for the windows. personally i want the colors to be the inverse of what they are now. i don't much like white backgrounds but would love to have a black background with white foreground to match my window. albert
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (05/15/91)
On Tue, 14 May 91 22:25:02 GMT <info-apple-request@APPLE.COM> said: > >i don't want the scroll bars to be just one color. i mean any allowable >color, just like for the windows. personally i want the colors to be the >inverse of what they are now. i don't much like white backgrounds but would >love to have a black background with white foreground to match my window. Yeah!!!! This is my NUMBER ONE gripe with Apples' GUI. I absolutely DETEST black text on a white background. It seems so unnatural on a computer screen and it hurts my eyes. That's one thing I like about SnowTerm... You can make the text and background any color you want (EXCEPT for the menu bar, which is a pain). I had been using that Inverter NDA, but it causes problems and randomly crashes my system... usually in SnowTerm. >albert ---------------------------------------- BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm <------------send files here pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (05/16/91)
In article <3574@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: >In article <3522@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: >] >]]all i want ... ... is for horizontal/vertical scroll bars to have >]]color. >] >]Any particular color? Or, are you talking about color tables? (which they >]already have as of system 5.0.x). >] >]]albert >] >]andy >] > >do you want to tell me how to do it. if i specify either scroll bar with >my window, i don't see where i can specify the colors. now, i think if i >create the separate parts of the scroll bar as controls then i can use >color tables. however, the former is much easier. > You didn't _say_ you wanted window frame scroll bars to have colors, you said "scroll bars" (quoted above). Andy was pointing out that scroll bars, which are merely controls, have always had color tables. If you'd reach up to look in Volume 1 you'd see that, but be careful -- reaching too fast might knock that chip off your shoulder, and we wouldn't want that. What you apparently meant to ask was that window frame scroll bars (handled by TaskMaster) have color tables, which would require extending the NewWindow2 parameter block. Possible, but not all that high a priority (IMHO), see below. >i don't want the scroll bars to be just one color. i mean any allowable >color, just like for the windows. personally i want the colors to be the >inverse of what they are now. i don't much like white backgrounds but would >love to have a black background with white foreground to match my window. > >albert They obviously can't be _one_ color or they'd be solid rectangles. The current ones are two colors - black and white. However, the "inverse" scroll bars you talk about represent a real danger which we already see with some IIgs programs - windows, menus and controls that look like they were designed by someone fascinated with a new box of crayons. It's true that the original HI guidelines were all black and white because that's all the Macintosh had, but the research on color since then has shown us several things: 1) A significant percentage of people are color blind, so colors should _never_ be used solely to distinguish between options. 2) Many people don't like some colors, so leaving things black and white and letting users color them how they like is the optimal solution. 3) Brightly-colored windows and icons (unless colored by the user) are often distracting and interfere with productive work. You'll notice that all of the new color icons in System 7.0 use very subdued colors (grays, browns, some blues, purples). I've seen GS desktops full of brightly-colored icons and they always make me feel like I'm looking at a coloring book. So, in general, leave your windows and controls standard colors or provide an option to let people color them however they like. Forcing your preferences on them is worse than leaving them the neutral colors they get by default. -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Developer Technical | The opinions expressed herein are Support, Apple Computer, Inc. | not those of Apple Computer, and Personal mail only, please. Thanks. | shame on you for thinking otherwise. ============================================================================
tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) (05/17/91)
In article <52939@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: > >However,the "inverse" scroll bars you talk about represent a real danger which >we already see with some IIgs programs - windows, menus and controls that look >like they were designed by someone fascinated with a new box of crayons. It's >true that the original HI guidelines were all black and white because that's >all the Macintosh had, but the research on color since then has shown us >several things: > >1) A significant percentage of people are color blind, so colors should > _never_ be used solely to distinguish between options. Hey Andy, do you think we should come out of the closet on this and tell them which of us Matt is talking about? :) >2) Many people don't like some colors, so leaving things black and white and > letting users color them how they like is the optimal solution. Here, here! I really get tired of some of the programs that are done in the off grayish-brown colors. That Elavator game that was on the binaries a while back was invisible. I can just imagine someone asking me to distinguish controls which I can't see. Also, for some god-awful reason I've noticed that some GS users like having their screens in pschodelic orange and green combinations. Stuff like that hurts the eyes after a while. (see below on 3) >3) Brightly-colored windows and icons (unless colored by the user) are often > distracting and interfere with productive work. You'll notice that all of > the new color icons in System 7.0 use very subdued colors (grays, browns, > some blues, purples). I've seen GS desktops full of brightly-colored > icons and they always make me feel like I'm looking at a coloring book. > >So, in general, leave your windows and controls standard colors or provide an >option to let people color them however they like. Forcing your preferences >on them is worse than leaving them the neutral colors they get by default. >-- >============================================================================ >Matt Deatherage, Developer Technical | The opinions expressed herein are >Support, Apple Computer, Inc. | not those of Apple Computer, and >Personal mail only, please. Thanks. | shame on you for thinking otherwise. >============================================================================ Trust me, Matt is NOT wrong on this. Fully 1 out of 4 men in America are color deficient. When you _commercially_ produce a program that people cannot play/use then you are cutting your own purse strings. Todd (!Whitesel) South -- -- tsouth@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!tsouth Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) Voice: +1 503 646-8257 Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) (05/21/91)
In article <52939@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: ]In article <3574@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: ]]In article <3522@kluge.fiu.edu> acmfiu@serss0.fiu.edu (ACMFIU) writes: ]]] ]]]]all i want ... ... is for horizontal/vertical scroll bars to have ]]]]color. ]]] ]]]Any particular color? Or, are you talking about color tables? (which they ]]]already have as of system 5.0.x). ]]] ]]]]albert ]]] ]]]andy ]]] ]] ]]do you want to tell me how to do it. if i specify either scroll bar with ]]my window, i don't see where i can specify the colors. now, i think if i ]]create the separate parts of the scroll bar as controls then i can use ]]color tables. however, the former is much easier. ]] ]You didn't _say_ you wanted window frame scroll bars to have colors, you ]said "scroll bars" (quoted above). Andy was pointing out that scroll bars, ]which are merely controls, have always had color tables. If you'd reach ]up to look in Volume 1 you'd see that, but be careful -- reaching too fast ]might knock that chip off your shoulder, and we wouldn't want that. what does the latter mean? ]What you apparently meant to ask was that window frame scroll bars (handled ]by TaskMaster) have color tables, which would require extending the NewWindow2 ]parameter block. Possible, but not all that high a priority (IMHO), see below. yes, that's what i wanted. i figured it wouldn't be a priority. i also don't think many people would be clammering for it when it can be done if you specify the scroll bar type of control. i'm willing to go that route. ]]i don't want the scroll bars to be just one color. i mean any allowable ]]color, just like for the windows. personally i want the colors to be the ]]inverse of what they are now. i don't much like white backgrounds but would ]]love to have a black background with white foreground to match my window. ]] ]]albert ] ]They obviously can't be _one_ color or they'd be solid rectangles. The ]current ones are two colors - black and white. ] ]However, the "inverse" scroll bars you talk about represent a real danger which ]we already see with some IIgs programs - windows, menus and controls that look ]like they were designed by someone fascinated with a new box of crayons. It's ]true that the original HI guidelines were all black and white because that's ]all the Macintosh had, but the research on color since then has shown us ]several things: at least i don't apply here. i do have 2.5 years in the printing industry so, although i'm no expert, i *think* i have a good eye for color. ]1) A significant percentage of people are color blind, so colors should ] _never_ be used solely to distinguish between options. agreed. however, i'm just talking about the default options my program will have. there will definitely be options to change the colors. i'm just asking because i want to make the default the way i like it. the user can always change. i commend SnowTerm on this option. ]2) Many people don't like some colors, so leaving things black and white and ] letting users color them how they like is the optimal solution. yes, i agree. that's why i want the window frame scroll bars black/white, except i want the current color represented by the window frame scroll bars reversed. this is just me. i happen to love black/white and would rather not have *any* color in my life (and i'm not color blind). ]3) Brightly-colored windows and icons (unless colored by the user) are often ] distracting and interfere with productive work. You'll notice that all of ] the new color icons in System 7.0 use very subdued colors (grays, browns, ] some blues, purples). I've seen GS desktops full of brightly-colored ] icons and they always make me feel like I'm looking at a coloring book. oh yes. there is nothing worse than people (i.e. AOL) shipping their programs and just highlighting the icons some obnoxious color. the first thing i do when i get an icons is make the color white. coloring the border is nice but the entire icon is too much. ]So, in general, leave your windows and controls standard colors or provide an ]option to let people color them however they like. Forcing your preferences ]on them is worse than leaving them the neutral colors they get by default. ]-- ]============================================================================ ]Matt Deatherage, Developer Technical | The opinions expressed herein are ]Support, Apple Computer, Inc. | not those of Apple Computer, and ]Personal mail only, please. Thanks. | shame on you for thinking otherwise. ]============================================================================ albert chin
dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Derek A. Taubert) (05/22/91)
>]]do you want to tell me how to do it. if i specify either scroll bar with >]]my window, i don't see where i can specify the colors. now, i think if i >]]create the separate parts of the scroll bar as controls then i can use >]]color tables. however, the former is much easier. >]] >]You didn't _say_ you wanted window frame scroll bars to have colors, you >]said "scroll bars" (quoted above). Andy was pointing out that scroll bars, >]which are merely controls, have always had color tables. If you'd reach >]up to look in Volume 1 you'd see that, but be careful -- reaching too fast >]might knock that chip off your shoulder, and we wouldn't want that. Well, great folks. Not that I don't like a good flame war, but could you please take this elsewhere? Matt - don't let albert get to you, he's got a short fuse. If you've already moved to less public grounds, then ignore me, please. -- + Derek Taubert --> derek@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu + Author of : GScii+ + + dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu + and the world's most useless + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ desk accessory -> Amaze me + + There are MOUSE technotes? + *******8-) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Ask me about my GS load meter + ^^^^^^^^^^ Marge Simpson +