taob@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Brian Tao) (05/20/91)
From: MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET > On Sun, 19 May 91 00:53:33 GMT Dave Huang said: > > > >Ack! TextTools is very slow (unless you have the FasText init). The > >GS/OS console driver is pretty nifty, and it's relatively fast. > > Great! Would that speed up the ORCA editor? Where can we get this? Dave's going on vacation pretty soon (someplace where I doubt he will have Internet access... ;-) ), but I got Paul Elseth's INIT from the uumich FTP site. It's small, so I can e-mail you a copy. -- Brian T. Tao *B-) | taob@micor.ocunix.on.ca | "Though this be 2705-1510 Riverside | - or - | madness, yet there Ottawa, ON K1G 4X5 | taob@micor.uucp | is method in 't."
fadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Andy McFadden) (05/21/91)
[stuff about FasText deleted]
>> Great! Would that speed up the ORCA editor? Where can we get this?
Get "Rose", a shareware editor for APW/ORCA. MUCH faster than the supplied
editor, plus you can edit two files at once (BIG difference!!), move around
with the mouse, etc. Well worth the $15 fee.
I believe it's available on the archive sites.
- Andy
--
fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden)
..!ucbvax!cory!fadden
fadden@hermes.berkeley.edu (when cory throws up)6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) (05/21/91)
Also note that Orca/m v2.0 is due out this summer, and it includes
things like:
- full GS/OS support in the shell (8k paths, 32k command lines,
console drive used for text)
- revamped editor with support for multiple files and more (I think
unlimited [memory] sized files can be edited, UNLIKE rose, but I'm
not 100% sure).
- faster assembler & zaplink included.
- most/all utils have been revamped to support GS/OS
- new macros & the like
- mo' commands, mo' commands, and mo' commands.
By the by, I'd also recommend MAXEDIT by Sea Software. Its a unbelievable
editor, large (but mem-resident). Very nice for those really long editing
sessions, mega-power. Also Edit-16 by Bill Tudor (published by SSSi) is
spiffy, a demo is floating around. MaxEdit is sold by 360.
--
Apple II Forever | 6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu | IBMs get the job done
Parik Rao | Amiga - for the creative mind | Class of 1994
Macintosh - buy it or Apple will sue you.jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) (05/21/91)
6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) writes: > Also note that Orca/m v2.0 is due out this summer, and it includes >things like: > > - full GS/OS support in the shell (8k paths, 32k command lines, > console drive used for text) I sure hope he doesn't do anything that would limit multitasking ability. > - faster assembler & zaplink included. Oh boy! How about a working C compiler too! > - most/all utils have been revamped to support GS/OS Gee, not like that shouldn't have been done a YEAR ago or anything. (Yeah, I'm Mike-bashing again). [...] >By the by, I'd also recommend MAXEDIT by Sea Software. Its a unbelievable >editor, large (but mem-resident). Very nice for those really long editing >sessions, mega-power. Also Edit-16 by Bill Tudor (published by SSSi) is >spiffy, a demo is floating around. MaxEdit is sold by 360. What's wrong with Micro-emacs? It's the perfect editor. Show me another GS editor that can edit binaries! -- Jawaid Bazyar | "Twenty seven faces- with their eyes turned to Graduated!/Comp Engineering | the sky. I have got a camera, and an airtight bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu | alibi.." Apple II Forever! | I need a job... Be privileged to pay me! :-)
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (05/22/91)
In article <1991May21.054549.25355@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) writes: >6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) writes: > > >> Also note that Orca/m v2.0 is due out this summer, and it includes >>things like: >> >> - full GS/OS support in the shell (8k paths, 32k command lines, >> console drive used for text) > > I sure hope he doesn't do anything that would limit multitasking >ability. > >Jawaid Bazyar | "Twenty seven faces- with their eyes turned to Just what is that supposed to mean? You're implying that by using the OS, Mike is somehow taking some desirable feature away from ORCA customers, which is a totally misleading statement. No multitasking ability for the IIgs exists in system software and GS/OS is specifically _not_ a multi-tasking OS. Somebody somewhere may be working on some kind of multitasking ability, but to not use GS/OS features in ORCA because this _might_ happen is lunacy of the highest order. I also think it's rather unfriendly of you to imply that developers should inhibit current features in favor of vapor features like some kind of multi-tasking. People who don't know that much about the IIgs might believe they shouldn't buy ORCA 2.0 based on your comments. -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Developer Technical | The opinions expressed herein are Support, Apple Computer, Inc. | not those of Apple Computer, and Personal mail only, please. Thanks. | shame on you for thinking otherwise. ^^^^^^^^ Technical questions are not personal. Please post them instead. ============================================================================
dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Derek A. Taubert) (05/22/91)
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >Just what is that supposed to mean? You're implying that by using the OS, >Mike is somehow taking some desirable feature away from ORCA customers, which >is a totally misleading statement. Well... He was talking mostly about change in the way the libraries do things. Like, if Mike decided to switch to using the console driver instead of the mess he's using now. Our vaporware would have a heck of a time making GS/OS into a multitasking OS, and therefore it would be difficult to trap screen writes from concurrently running processes. In other words, the multi-tasking would be useless to programs developed to use the GS/OS mechanism. Since I am an ORCA customer, and this is desirable to me, it's not exactly misleading is it? >No multitasking ability for the IIgs exists in system software and GS/OS is >specifically _not_ a multi-tasking OS. Somebody somewhere may be working on >some kind of multitasking ability, but to not use GS/OS features in ORCA >because this _might_ happen is lunacy of the highest order. Agreed. Sort of... The kind of things Mike would have to do to cause problems for us would also cause problems for things previously compiled to work with the new ORCA. ie: no backwards compatibility. Blame it on us, but I think this really lies with the absense of foresight in Mike. >I also think it's rather unfriendly of you to imply that developers should >inhibit current features in favor of vapor features like some kind of >multi-tasking. People who don't know that much about the IIgs might believe >they shouldn't buy ORCA 2.0 based on your comments. Well, I didn't feel that way, but I guess I understand the situation a little better. Jawaid's comment wasn't of this magnitude and most likely should have been followed by :-). I'm not bashing, I'm just defending him for the somewhat unsolicited response. -- + Derek Taubert --> derek@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu + Author of : GScii+ + + dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu + and the world's most useless + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ desk accessory -> Amaze me + + There are MOUSE technotes? + *******8-) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Ask me about my GS load meter + ^^^^^^^^^^ Marge Simpson +
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) (05/22/91)
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >In article <1991May21.054549.25355@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) writes: >Just what is that supposed to mean? You're implying that by using the OS, >Mike is somehow taking some desirable feature away from ORCA customers, which >is a totally misleading statement. You're reading things into this. >No multitasking ability for the IIgs exists in system software and GS/OS is >specifically _not_ a multi-tasking OS. Somebody somewhere may be working on >some kind of multitasking ability, but to not use GS/OS features in ORCA >because this _might_ happen is lunacy of the highest order. As I've discussed with you before, *may* is definitely not the term. >I also think it's rather unfriendly of you to imply that developers should >inhibit current features in favor of vapor features like some kind of >multi-tasking. People who don't know that much about the IIgs might believe >they shouldn't buy ORCA 2.0 based on your comments. At this point, Orca 2.0 is just as much vaporware as is the GNO project. But I've seen the GNO project, and know that it *is* going somewhere. If you really must know exactly what the deal is, here it is in a nutshell. It doesn't matter one whit if Mike adds console driver support to the shell, because the shell has to be replaced. But if the utilities are changed to require the console driver, then we're up a crick- because we can patch a lot of things but we can't patch a GS/OS driver- you'd shit bricks. (Unless Apple was so gracious as to provide us with source- or better yet, if I become an Apple partner, YOU'd probably get to patch it. Imagine that- you working for me. Note that there is an implied smiley- I'm poking you in the ribs and hoping you don't knock my head off. Back to the subject, I'm going to be contacting Mike tomorrow (if he's not off on one of his extended lunches) to talk to him about this. I very well might be talking to DTS soon too. $300 isn't THAT much money. -- Jawaid Bazyar | "Twenty seven faces- with their eyes turned to Graduated!/Comp Engineering | the sky. I have got a camera, and an airtight bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu | alibi.." Apple II Forever! | I need a job... Be privileged to pay me! :-)
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (05/22/91)
In article <1991May22.025850.9550@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) writes: >because the shell has to be replaced. But if the utilities are changed to >require the console driver, then we're up a crick- because we can patch a >lot of things but we can't patch a GS/OS driver- you'd shit bricks. What I would like to know is why anybody is supposed to cater to such a software system. Hell, it's not going to be able to run anything other than applications specifically developed for that environment anyway.
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) (05/23/91)
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: >In article <1991May22.025850.9550@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) writes: >>because the shell has to be replaced. But if the utilities are changed to >>require the console driver, then we're up a crick- because we can patch a >>lot of things but we can't patch a GS/OS driver- you'd shit bricks. >What I would like to know is why anybody is supposed to cater to such a >software system. Hell, it's not going to be able to run anything other >than applications specifically developed for that environment anyway. Wait... did _I_ say that? Did anyone, for that matter, say that? No, you did. The goal is as much compatibility with existing shell applications as we can manage. Right now, with almost no work expended, we're hovering somewhere around 80%. I don't think that's too bad for software that has barely even started. Doug- you're always telling people to get their facts straight before they open their mouths- it's still good advice. We'll be posting a full report on the GNO system as soon as we get something we're not ashamed to put our names on. Until then, I'd encourage you to refrain from slamming it. Perhaps I've misunderstood you- there will be a free, PD, version of the environment. Certain features will be lacking, of course, since we hope to make the final product a commercial venture. Everything is undecided EXCEPT that there will be a way for people to run this software for free. -- Jawaid Bazyar | "Twenty seven faces- with their eyes turned to Graduated!/Comp Engineering | the sky. I have got a camera, and an airtight bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu | alibi.." Apple II Forever! | I need a job... Be privileged to pay me! :-)