jordan@hpfcdj.HP.COM (Steve J. Jordan) (05/22/91)
Recently, someone else commented that one of their biggest complaints about GS system software was that text was black on a white background. That comment seemed to be ignored, so I thought I'd re-surface the complaint. The white background of GS windows annoys me almost to the point I can't stand using them! I don't know alot about GS programming, but is this problem something that should be fixed in the GS system software--or is it simply that all GS programmers have been following a standard & the system software is not at fault? I suppose the problem could be remedied either by reversing things to make the text white and the background black, or by making things user-selectable. Is there someone out there at Apple that might listen to my complaint? Steve Jordan jordan@hpfcdj.hp.com
giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) (05/23/91)
In article <29110019@hpfcdj.HP.COM> jordan@hpfcdj.HP.COM (Steve J. Jordan) writes: >Recently, someone else commented that one of their biggest complaints about >GS system software was that text was black on a white background. That >comment seemed to be ignored, so I thought I'd re-surface the complaint. >The white background of GS windows annoys me almost to the point I can't >stand using them! Actually, bright backgrounds with dark text is better for your eyes than the reverse. Maybe a beige background would be better, but I'd be against going to black. Rocky Giovinazzo
nagendra@bucsf.bu.edu (nagendra mishr) (05/23/91)
I agree, but I end up using inverter which is an NDA which reverses all the colors. But shouldn't this be a control panel option? Something that the user sets? nagendra nagendra@bucsf.bu.edu
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (05/23/91)
On Tue, 21 May 91 21:49:09 GMT Steve J. Jordan said: >Recently, someone else commented that one of their biggest complaints about >GS system software was that text was black on a white background. That >comment seemed to be ignored, so I thought I'd re-surface the complaint. >The white background of GS windows annoys me almost to the point I can't >stand using them! > >I don't know alot about GS programming, but is this problem something that >should be fixed in the GS system software--or is it simply that >all GS programmers have been following a standard & the system software is not >at fault? It's mostly the System Softwares' fault. Although, programmers can make their programs with white text on a black background... it's really a function of the system software. Snowterm and the Sonic Blaster software are the only programs I've seen that allow you to change the colors to whatever you like. Except, in Snowterm, you're forced to have a blinding, distracting, white menu bar on top. Other than that, Snowterm is great. >I suppose the problem could be remedied either by reversing things to make the >text white and the background black, or by making things user-selectable. There's an NDA out called Inverter, but it's sorta buggy and some applications don't like it at all (Appleworks GS) and it's a little flaky in others. What we need is a control panel device, similar to the macs' which lets us define our own desktop colors. Those colors are then saved, and ALL applications are affected by the new change. One problem with the one on the mac is you can't change the black and white colors. If we had this CDEV on the GS, but had access to ALL the colors, most importantly, black and white, this would make the GS EMENSELY more enjoyable for myself, and I'm sure, MANY others. How 'bout it, Apple System Software Dudes (or Dudettes)? :) >Is there someone out there at Apple that might listen to my complaint? > >Steve Jordan >jordan@hpfcdj.hp.com ---------------------------------------- BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm <------------send files here pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (05/23/91)
On Wed, 22 May 91 17:18:46 GMT <info-apple-request@APPLE.COM> said: > Actually, bright backgrounds with dark text is better for your >eyes than the reverse. Maybe a beige background would be better, but >I'd be against going to black. How 'bout having it user selectible? I don't like the idea of someone else deciding what's best for me (not implying that you're doing that, and that wasn't directed to you either, so don't take affense, please). >Rocky Giovinazzo ---------------------------------------- BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm <------------send files here pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
dlyons@Apple.COM (David A Lyons) (05/23/91)
In article <29110019@hpfcdj.HP.COM> jordan@hpfcdj.HP.COM (Steve J. Jordan) writes: >Recently, someone else commented that one of their biggest complaints about >GS system software was that text was black on a white background. That >comment seemed to be ignored, so I thought I'd re-surface the complaint. >The white background of GS windows annoys me almost to the point I can't >stand using them! >[...] >Is there someone out there at Apple that might listen to my complaint? I hear you, but the most workable solution I can think of involves swapping black and white in the color table, and I hear there is an NDA out there that does this. (I've also heard it crashes under some applications? Don't know why, it's a simple enough thing to do.) So far inclined *not* to try to make the system software swap the colors this way, because it would make some applications look really bad, through no fault of their developers. Most people seem happy with white backgrounds, so maybe a third-party NDA is a good solution. -- David A. Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems Apple II System Software Engineer | P.O. Box 875 America Online: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie:DAVE.LYONS CompuServe:72177,3233 Internet:dlyons@apple.com My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
charlie@pro-mansion.cts.com (Charles Vangsgard) (05/24/91)
In-Reply-To: message from dlyons@Apple.COM Perhaps the black on white complaint comes from someone who is accustomed to using a PC. We like the familiar. If someone handed me a news paper which was interely black with white lettering I would say ICKY! Would we want to watch our TV sets with a black background and white lettering? It is no wonder the PC and Mac users are so different, they consider the other side to be using INVERSE VIDEO. ---- ProLine: charlie@pro-mansion Internet: charlie@pro-mansion UUCP: crash!pro-mansion!charlie ARPA: crash!pro-mansion!charlie@nosc.mil
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (05/25/91)
On Fri, 24 May 91 11:16:08 GMT Charles Vangsgard said: >In-Reply-To: message from dlyons@Apple.COM > >Perhaps the black on white complaint comes from someone who is accustomed >to using a PC. We like the familiar. If someone handed me a news paper >which was interely black with white lettering I would say ICKY! Would we >want to watch our TV sets with a black background and white lettering? It >is no wonder the PC and Mac users are so different, they consider the other >side to be using INVERSE VIDEO. hehehe... Actually, I'm used to white text on black backgrounds for being around Apple II's for so long. When the GS came out with the desktop, I couldn't stand it (I couldn't stand the -desktop-, not talking abut the GS). But you're right. It seems like inverse video to me. I remember, LONG before the GS came out, I patched DOS 3.3 to print in inverse (black text on a white background) and thought it was the most god-awful thing I'd ever seen. When the GS came out with that exact same thing, I was really amazed that some one would actually make an operating system like that. It's just the WORST I could possibly imagine .... well, I guess a puke greenish-brown background with pail-green text COULD be worse....:) As for the newspaper & T.V... I'd rather read white text with a black back- ground on T.V. and I've actually thought about this before, but I think that black paper with white text would look really cool, but when you're talking about reflective light (light reflecting off paper) and additive light (light emitting from a picture tube) it always looks best for additive to have light text and dark background (for me). I can't express how much I hate the white background. It's just utterly disgusting. ------------------- By the way... about that GUIMaster... Someone e-mailed it to me (thanks, by the way), It crashes when I select the NDA from the finder. I wrote my own 'module', but I can't figure out how to keep it from using those home-made radio dials, scroll bars, etc... They look really bad in 320 mode. Also, I can't figure out how to make white text with a black background. The documentation just says, it's in the toolbox reference. It would be EXTREMELY nice if we have an 'official' CDEV from Apple that we could rely on and use easily. Not everyone has APW or ORCA (which is required for GUImaster. Don't get me wrong about GUImaster though... it's pretty nice, just a little buggy and pretty hard to use, AND I really appreciate it being e-mailed to me. >---- >ProLine: charlie@pro-mansion >Internet: charlie@pro-mansion >UUCP: crash!pro-mansion!charlie >ARPA: crash!pro-mansion!charlie@nosc.mil ---------------------------------------- BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm <------------send files here pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
dkl@xcluud.sccsi.com (David Leikam) (05/26/91)
[ Stuff re changing desktop/windows to white-on-black omitted] While we're on the general topic of changes to the desktop defaults.. is there a good (i.e, works, doesn't crash) way to change the system font from Shaston to something else of my choice? There was a utility that could do this on the Mac (Can't remember the name of it). Any reasonable way to do it for the //GS? (Yes, I know about looking over the results carefully, and the spacing problems, &c. I'll be careful.)
geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) (05/29/91)
In-Reply-To: message from dkl@xcluud.sccsi.com There is MenuFont NDA. I don't know where it cam from, but it is on the Hindu Love Gods ProLine BBS at 313/644-0481 in MI. Real short d/l time. Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Moylan ProLine: geniusman@pro-hindugods Internet: geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com UUCP: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman ARPA: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman@nosc.mil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (05/31/91)
In article <qD7i34w164w@xcluud.sccsi.com> dkl@xcluud.sccsi.com (David Leikam) writes: > > While we're on the general topic of changes to the desktop defaults.. is >there a good (i.e, works, doesn't crash) way to change the system font from >Shaston to something else of my choice? There was a utility that could do >this on the Mac (Can't remember the name of it). Any reasonable way to do >it for the //GS? (Yes, I know about looking over the results carefully, and >the spacing problems, &c. I'll be careful.) Well, it's possible, but it's not very prevalent for two reasons: 1) Some applications have hard-coded the menu bar height for Shaston 8, making other fonts less than desirable. 2) The toolbox has a circularity problem with changing the system font. The Window, Menu and Control Managers all use the currently installed System font for their work, but if you want to get a new system font off disk, you usually want to use the Font Manager -- which has to be started _after_ the WCM trio. To make the WCM tools use a new system font, you'd have to shut them down and restart them, which is marginally safe if you have other tools depending on them (like TextEdit) and is totally unsafe if you're a DA or other non-application. But generically speaking, the conceptual solution is easy: You just have to make the font you want the system font before starting up the desktop tools. You just can't usually use the Font Manager to help. <sigh> -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Developer Technical | The opinions expressed herein are Support, Apple Computer, Inc. | not those of Apple Computer, and Personal mail only, please. Thanks. | shame on you for thinking otherwise. ^^^^^^^^ Technical questions are not personal. Please post them instead. ============================================================================
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (05/31/91)
In article <53499@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: > But generically speaking, the conceptual solution is easy: You just have > to make the font you want the system font before starting up the desktop > tools. You just can't usually use the Font Manager to help. <sigh> Can you change the system font that will be used on the NEXT boot? I don't know what makes something the "system font" or not, but if it's possible to make some sort of program that lets you select the system font, but only operates upon the next boot, it seems the problem is solved. Lots of Mac programs only act on changes you've made after the next boot. -- /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! unknown@cats.ucsc.edu\ |WANT to help get ULTIMA VI //e or GS written?-mail me. CHEAP CD info-mail me.| \ It's a Late Night World.... Of Love /
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (06/03/91)
In article <16381@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > Can you change the system font that will be used on the NEXT >boot? > >/unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! unknown@cats.ucsc.edu\ It's not a matter of booting, it's a matter of starting QuickDraw. You could conceivably load the font (via the Font Manager), copy the handle so the Font Manager wouldn't dispose of it on FMShutDown and thereby keep it around - but you'd also have to patch QDStartUp to call SetSysFont with that font handle again. QuickDraw defaults to a Shaston 8 (well, actually a ROM) system font every time it's started up. -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Developer Technical | The opinions expressed herein are Support, Apple Computer, Inc. | not those of Apple Computer, and Personal mail only, please. Thanks. | shame on you for thinking otherwise. ^^^^^^^^ Technical questions are not personal. Please post them instead. ============================================================================