gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) (06/05/91)
I don't know why this is so, but I have a 1 meg //e apple card made by apple that states not to plug it into slot 3, and when i load such programs as proterm...it will not give me more memory than standard.....i find this strange.... any reason why? It is in slot 4 -- Michael Gammal Concordia University gammal@Altitude.CAM.ORG
toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (06/06/91)
gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) writes: >I don't know why this is so, but I have a 1 meg //e apple card made by apple >that states not to plug it into slot 3, and when i load such programs as >proterm...it will not give me more memory than standard.....i find this >strange.... any reason why? >It is in slot 4 It's because ProTERM isn't smart enough to use that card directly. Notice that you now have a 1 meg RAMdisk called /RAM4 -- ProTERM _will_ recognize this. Smarter programs (like AppleWorks 3.0) should automatically use your card as extra memory. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (06/06/91)
In article <1991Jun5.051341.196@CAM.ORG> gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) writes: >I don't know why this is so, but I have a 1 meg //e apple card made by apple >that states not to plug it into slot 3, and when i load such programs as >proterm...it will not give me more memory than standard.....i find this >strange.... any reason why? Sounds like a "RAM disk emulator", which generally is accessed as ProDOS volume name /RAM just like a small, fast disk drive. Access to such a device is radically different from access to the extended memory card used in the //e's auxiliary memory slot, which permits expansion up to 128KB (configured as two 64KB address spaces of which only one is accessible at a time, requiring a call to firmware to switch to the other address space). There is no practical way to use the /RAM memory as "main memory" like the auxiliary memory slot's memory. Some applications can use the /RAM memory to hold data, but to do so they must use different access methods than for main memory; many applications don't bother.
johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) (06/06/91)
In article <1991Jun5.051341.196@CAM.ORG>, gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) writes: |> I don't know why this is so, but I have a 1 meg //e apple card made by apple |> that states not to plug it into slot 3, and when i load such programs as |> proterm...it will not give me more memory than standard.....i find this |> strange.... any reason why? |> |> It is in slot 4 I was of the impression that the Apple Memory Expansion Card COULD be plugged into slot 3 of an Apple //e with an Extended 80-Column Card. What's the story on this? -- John Townsend Internet: johnt@meaddata.com c/o Mead Data Central UUCP: ...!uunet!meaddata!johnt 9555 Springboro Pike GEnie: J.TOWNSEND14 Miamisburg, OH 45401 Telephone: (513) 865-7250
toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (06/07/91)
johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) writes: >I was of the impression that the Apple Memory Expansion Card COULD be plugged >into slot 3 of an Apple //e with an Extended 80-Column Card. What's the story >on this? Well, you could access the card, but you wouldn't be able to use both the card's firmware and the //e's 80 column firmware. Most programs (including the ProDOS kernel) would insist on using one or the other, but not both). So Apple saves you a compatibility headache by just telling you not to do it. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) (06/07/91)
> From: gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) > Subject: apple memory card > Date: 5 Jun 91 05:13:41 GMT > Organization: Altitude.CAM.ORG, St-Lambert QC CANADA > Size: 10 lines (736 bytes) > > I don't know why this is so, but I have a 1 meg //e apple card made by apple > that states not to plug it into slot 3, and when i load such programs as > proterm...it will not give me more memory than standard.....i find this > strange.... any reason why? > > It is in slot 4 > > > -- > Michael Gammal Concordia University gammal@Altitude.CAM.ORG If you are using an old version of ProTERM (or any other program) which was made before the Memory Expansion Card was released by Apple, it almost definitely won't take advantage of the Memory Expansion Card... I'm pretty sure ProTERM 2.2 will use it though - call InSync and find out... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Daniel M. Zimmerman InterNet - dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com TFF Enterprises America Online - Surak TFF CompuServe - 76407,2246 "Learn reason above all. Learn clear thought; learn to know what is from what seems to be, and what you wish to be. This is the key to everything: the truth of reality, the reality of truth. What IS will set you free." - Surak Of Vulcan
warren.e@pro-beagle.cts.com (Warren Ernst) (06/08/91)
In-Reply-To: message from johnt@meaddata.com In his letter, John Townsend includes: |> I don't know why this is so, but I have a 1 meg //e apple card made by apple |> that states not to plug it into slot 3, and when i load such programs as |> proterm...it will not give me more memory than standard.....i find this |> strange.... any reason why? |> |> It is in slot 4 I was of the impression that the Apple Memory Expansion Card COULD be plugged into slot 3 of an Apple //e with an Extended 80-Column Card. What's the story on this? __________________________________________________________________________ The Apple Memory card, like the RamFactor from AE, is like any other card you might hace like a super serial or disk II or somewthing in that it cant be plugged into slot 3. This is because slot 3 is special, and mapped into Aux. Slot where your 80 column card is. It has to do with how older Apple // +'s had funky 80 col cards there and the //e is supposed to be compatible with it. So, to sum up, almost no card you can buy can be plugged into slot 3, and Apple's RAM card falls into this category. Ones that do work there are Transwarp, the slot 3 clock, and that's about it. -Warr /===============================++========================================\ | Warren Ernst || & This is called an ampersand. | | warren.e@pro-Beagle.cts.com || @ This is called an at sign. | | wernst@ucsd.edu || * This is called an asterisk. | | GEnie too || ] This is called a square bracket. | +-------------------------------+| ) This is called a parenthesis. | |1HOME:INVERSE2X=RND(1)*24+1:VTA|| # This is called a pound sign. | |BX:HTABX:?X;:HTAB26-X:?X;:GOTO2|| ^ This is called a little pointy thing.| \===============================++========================================/
glennl@pro-avalon.cts.com (Glenn Levine) (06/09/91)
In-Reply-To: message from toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu try putting your memory card in the auxilary slot, it works with my 1 meg memory card, and proterm and appleworks finds the card -- glennl@pro-avalon UUCP: crash!pro-avalon!glennl | pro-avalon ARPA: crash!pro-avalon!glennl@nosc.mil | 619/299-1449, 2400, 81N INET: glennl@pro-avalon.cts.com | San Diego, CA
geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) (06/10/91)
In-Reply-To: message from glennl@pro-avalon.cts.com >try putting your memory card in the auxilary slot, it works with my 1 meg >memory card, and proterm and appleworks finds the card > >-- glennl@pro-avalon Also, if you already have a card in the AUX slot, you can remove it, as the new card should have all the same features as the resident one. >UUCP: crash!pro-avalon!glennl | pro-avalon >ARPA: crash!pro-avalon!glennl@nosc.mil | 619/299-1449, 2400, 81N >INET: glennl@pro-avalon.cts.com | San Diego, CA Chris Chris Moylan | ProLine: geniusman@pro-hindugods CoSysop: Hindu Love Gods BBS | Internet: geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com 313/644-0481 | UUCP: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman 300-9600 bps, v.32/v.42/v.42bis | ARPA: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman@nosc.mil
warren.e@pro-beagle.cts.com (Warren Ernst) (06/10/91)
In-Reply-To: message from glennl@pro-avalon.cts.com glennl writes of putting a slinky RAM card and ProTErm: In-Reply-To: message from toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu try putting your memory card in the auxilary slot, it works with my 1 meg memory card, and proterm and appleworks finds the card -- glennl@pro-avalon To which I respond, with arms waving madly and spit on my screen: DO NOT DO THIS!!! THIS WILL NOT WORK AND WILL MOST LIKELY SHORT OUT THE MEMORY CARD AND THE COMPUTER ITSELF, a situation much worse than a small scrollback and copy buffer. /===============================++========================================\ | Warren Ernst || & This is called an ampersand. | | warren.e@pro-Beagle.cts.com || @ This is called an at sign. | | wernst@ucsd.edu || * This is called an asterisk. | | GEnie too || ] This is called a square bracket. | +-------------------------------+| ) This is called a parenthesis. | |1HOME:INVERSE2X=RND(1)*24+1:VTA|| # This is called a pound sign. | |BX:HTABX:?X;:HTAB26-X:?X;:GOTO2|| ^ This is called a little pointy thing.| \===============================++========================================/
johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) (06/10/91)
In article <1991Jun6.214717.5850@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: |> johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) writes: |> |> >I was of the impression that the Apple Memory Expansion Card COULD be |> >plugged into slot 3 of an Apple //e with an Extended 80-Column Card. |> >What's the story on this? |> |> Well, you could access the card, but you wouldn't be able to use both the |> card's firmware and the //e's 80 column firmware. Most programs (including |> the ProDOS kernel) would insist on using one or the other, but not both). |> So Apple saves you a compatibility headache by just telling you not to do |> it. Ah, but I thought that memory cards, like CP/M cards, don't have any firmware, and thus would not collide with the 80-column firmware. Is the Apple Memory Expansion Card an exception? What about the AE RAMFactor card and other slot 1-7 memory cards? This question interests me because I have a //e whose auxiliary slot is inhabited by a Microsoft Premium Softcard //e (80-col + 64K + Z80). The only slot I have which might be available for memory expansion (e.g. for AW 3.0 and as a ProDOS RAM disk) is slot 3. Thanks for any info! -- John Townsend Internet: johnt@meaddata.com c/o Mead Data Central UUCP: ...!uunet!meaddata!johnt 9555 Springboro Pike GEnie: J.TOWNSEND14 Miamisburg, OH 45401 Telephone: (513) 865-7250
mcl9337@harpo.tamu.edu (LOWE, MARK CHRISTOPHER) (06/11/91)
In article <4769@meaddata.meaddata.com>, johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) writes... >Ah, but I thought that memory cards, like CP/M cards, don't have any firmware, >and thus would not collide with the 80-column firmware. Is the Apple Memory >Expansion Card an exception? What about the AE RAMFactor card and other >slot 1-7 memory cards? This question interests me because I have a //e whose >auxiliary slot is inhabited by a Microsoft Premium Softcard //e (80-col + 64K + >Z80). The only slot I have which might be available for memory expansion >(e.g. for AW 3.0 and as a ProDOS RAM disk) is slot 3. Thanks for any info! > Apple's memory card DOES contain firmware. It's got some self-test routines on there as well as a lot of other stuff I won't attempt to detail. Anyway, you can test the memory on the card by entering the monitor and typing *Cx0AG x=slot number - like you didn't know that! The card automatically detects the amount of RAM installed and proceeds to test the memory in an infinite loop until a key is pressed. Very handy if you aren't sure your memory is working right. The card is read/written via a single location in the slot I/O address space. It utilizes an auto-incrementing three-byte counter ALSO in the slot I/O space. I have had and used this board since about 1985. If anyone wants more specific info, I'll provide it. Mark C. "Bro!" Lowe - KB5III Sir Briggs
toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (06/11/91)
johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) writes: >Ah, but I thought that memory cards, like CP/M cards, don't have any firmware, >and thus would not collide with the 80-column firmware. Is the Apple Memory >Expansion Card an exception? What about the AE RAMFactor card and other >slot 1-7 memory cards? Not all memory cards are alike. Cards that go in the //e auxiliary slot, the //gs memory slot, or the ancient ones that go in slots 1-7 but operate as bank-switched RAM, do not have firmware on the cards. Two of these have their own special slots, and don't conflict with slots 1-7; the BSR cards can be put in any slot and will work if your software supports them (don't try to put them in a GS unless you know what you're doing, however). "Slinky" cards like the Apple Memory Expansion and the RamFactor are a totally different beast. These use a single byte 'window' into the memory space, and as such make extremely reliable RAMdisks (they don't get toasted when you reboot and they are not easy to corrupt accidentally). These all have firmware of their own so ProDOS will recognize them as disks and know how to use them -- so you don't want these in slot 3. These cards also MUST NOT be plugged into other slots (somebody managed to suggest this earlier) unless you want to risk the possibility of frying something. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) (06/14/91)
In article <1991Jun10.044122.7374@clark.edu>, geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) writes: |> In-Reply-To: message from glennl@pro-avalon.cts.com |> |> >try putting your memory card in the auxilary slot, it works with my 1 meg |> >memory card, and proterm and appleworks finds the card |> |> Also, if you already have a card in the AUX slot, you can remove it, as the |> new card should have all the same features as the resident one. |> Come on, people. If there's anything worse than no information, it's misinformation. The Apple Memory Expansion card doesn't fit in the AUX slot of the Apple //e. It only fits in slots 1-7 of the II/II+/IIe/IIgs. And besides, last I checked, the Apple Memory Expansion Card didn't have a 3 MHz Z80 on it, like the card presently resident in my AUX slot. The question -- again -- is why won't it work in slot 3? I wasn't aware that the AME card, or any other slot 1-7 memory card, had firmware that would collide with the //e 80-column firmware if you put it in slot 3. -- John Townsend Internet: johnt@meaddata.com c/o Mead Data Central UUCP: ...!uunet!meaddata!johnt 9555 Springboro Pike GEnie: J.TOWNSEND14 Miamisburg, OH 45401 Telephone: (513) 865-7250