unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (05/31/91)
In article <1520025@hpcc01.HP.COM> drudman@hpcc01.HP.COM (Drew Rudman) writes: >GBBS on the other hand provides you with a completely new programming language >(very similar to basic so the transition is not that difficult) that offers >text file based source code and a compiler. No run-time interpretation of >your system segments. This results in a faster system. I looked at Pro-Line >when I began investigating starting a BBS, but I made the decision to go >with GBBS because of its programming flexibility. The ACOS programming >language does have its quirks, but with improvements such as MACOS and METAL, >the language has become quite robust and very quick. I know almost nothing about ProLine and know little about GBBS... But I know that ACOS doesn't have arrays (or at least didn't when I looked at it last summer to write a full screen editor in).. No arrays makes a hell of a lot of stuff a pain to write. -- /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! unknown@cats.ucsc.edu\ |WANT to help get ULTIMA VI //e or GS written?-mail me. CHEAP CD info-mail me.| \ It's a Late Night World.... Of Love /
drudman@hpcc01.HP.COM (Drew Rudman) (06/01/91)
You're right, ACOS does not have arrays. But MACOS and METAL have extended the ACOS language to support arrays (among other things.) Release 3.0 of ACOS will probably incorporate arrays (if we ever see a release 3.0) [ Call... 9600bps/60meg ][ Drew Rudman ] [ The Charge ][ ] [ Apple ][ IBM ][ Internet: drudman@hpiosa.corp.hp.com ] [ (415) 321-4713 ][ The Charge BBS: Axe Slinger (#1) ]
cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) (06/02/91)
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > In article <1520025@hpcc01.HP.COM> drudman@hpcc01.HP.COM (Drew Rudman) writes > But I know that ACOS doesn't have arrays (or at least didn't when > I looked at it last summer to write a full screen editor in).. No arrays > makes a hell of a lot of stuff a pain to write. No, ACOS may not have arrays, but MACOS does. Most people prefer to use MACOS over ACOS, as it does have arrays, both one and two dimensional. -- Conway Chen cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com uunet!nuchat!xcluud!cchen
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) (06/04/91)
cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) writes: >unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >> But I know that ACOS doesn't have arrays (or at least didn't when >>I looked at it last summer to write a full screen editor in).. No arrays >>makes a hell of a lot of stuff a pain to write. >No, ACOS may not have arrays, but MACOS does. Most people prefer to use >MACOS over ACOS, as it does have arrays, both one and two dimensional. However if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. Anyway, a full screen editor does exist, using ProTERM Special Emulation. It is an external USEfile. >Conway Chen >cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com >uunet!nuchat!xcluud!cchen -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."
drudman@hpcc01.HP.COM (Drew Rudman) (06/04/91)
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) writes: >However if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can >kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. Oh no! You mean you'd lose all that great L&L support! What a crime. Also, if I remember correctly, the upgrade from 1.3j to 2.0d was priced at $25 in an upgrade letter I received a year or so back. Seems I've already lost my free upgrades. Don't get me wrong, I like the product (ACOS/MACOS/METAL) but I dislike the people responsible for it. [ Call... 9600bps/60meg ][ Drew Rudman ] [ The Charge ][ ] [ Apple ][ IBM ][ Internet: drudman@hpiosa.corp.hp.com ] [ (415) 321-4713 ][ The Charge BBS: Axe Slinger (#1) ]
tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun3.180606.29748@unlinfo.unl.edu> greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) writes: >cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) writes: >>unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > >>> But I know that ACOS doesn't have arrays (or at least didn't when >>>I looked at it last summer to write a full screen editor in).. No arrays >>>makes a hell of a lot of stuff a pain to write. > >>No, ACOS may not have arrays, but MACOS does. Most people prefer to use >>MACOS over ACOS, as it does have arrays, both one and two dimensional. > >However if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can >kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. > >Anyway, a full screen editor does exist, using ProTERM Special Emulation. >It is an external USEfile. > >>Conway Chen >>cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com >>uunet!nuchat!xcluud!cchen > >-- >/// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are >| |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing > \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the >greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them." AH HAH! Now we see the added costs REQUIRED to edit ACOS files!!!! So, how much did you have to pay for ProTERM to effectively edit those ACOS segments? Guess you got tired of looking at 40-column FreeWriter screens. :) Todd South -- -- tsouth@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!tsouth Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) Voice: +1 503 646-8257 Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) (06/06/91)
drudman@hpcc01.HP.COM (Drew Rudman) writes: >greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) writes: >>However if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can >>kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. >Oh no! You mean you'd lose all that great L&L support! What a crime. I agree on the support. But if ACOS gets upgraded to a level beyond what MACOS gives you, you are not entitled to a copy. >Also, if I remember correctly, the upgrade from 1.3j to 2.0d was priced >at $25 in an upgrade letter I received a year or so back. Seems I've >already lost my free upgrades. Only if Lance knows you run MACOS. Otherwise you may still be able to upgrade. Newest version I am aware of is v2.11. >Don't get me wrong, I like the product (ACOS/MACOS/METAL) but I dislike the >people responsible for it. Wait a minute, MACOS and METAL are not L&L Productions products. Only ACOS is. MACOS is discontinued for legal reasons, and METAL is the recent legal product by the person who created MACOS. >[ Call... 9600bps/60meg ][ Drew Rudman ] >[ Apple ][ IBM ][ Internet: drudman@hpiosa.corp.hp.com ] >[ (415) 321-4713 ][ The Charge BBS: Axe Slinger (#1) ] -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) (06/06/91)
tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) writes: >greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) writes: >>Anyway, a full screen editor does exist, using ProTERM Special Emulation. >>It is an external USEfile. >AH HAH! Now we see the added costs REQUIRED to edit ACOS files!!!! How does that follow? This is an editor for use by the users for posting messages who use ProTERM Special Emulation. >So, how much did you have to pay for ProTERM to effectively edit >those ACOS segments? Guess you got tired of looking at 40-column >FreeWriter screens. :) Even here you just said ProTERM was not a requirement. Also you show your ignorance of FreeWriter. It has 80 columns. One can also edit ACOS files within the system, using the built-in line editor and some code. >Todd South >tsouth@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!tsouth -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."
cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) (06/06/91)
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) writes: > cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) writes: > >unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > >> But I know that ACOS doesn't have arrays (or at least didn't when > >>I looked at it last summer to write a full screen editor in).. No arrays > >>makes a hell of a lot of stuff a pain to write. > > >No, ACOS may not have arrays, but MACOS does. Most people prefer to use > >MACOS over ACOS, as it does have arrays, both one and two dimensional. > > However if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can > kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. > > Anyway, a full screen editor does exist, using ProTERM Special Emulation. > It is an external USEfile. > > >Conway Chen > >cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com > >uunet!nuchat!xcluud!cchen > > -- > /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are > | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing > \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the > greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them. Maybe, but to some, the risk is worth it. Personally, I don't see how I would be losing my rights to upgrading and support, since I still haven't paid for the $20 fee for tranferring ownership. Maybe I will and go to ACOS when I do run a BBS, but for now, MACOS is wonderful for me to program in. -- Conway Chen cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com uunet!nuchat!xcluud!cchen
drudman@hpcc01.HP.COM (Drew Rudman) (06/07/91)
>>Oh no! You mean you'd lose all that great L&L support! What a crime. >I agree on the support. But if ACOS gets upgraded to a level beyond what >MACOS gives you, you are not entitled to a copy. Like I have anything to worry about! Even the upgrade to 2.0 did not include arrays and MACOS had been around for months. >>Also, if I remember correctly, the upgrade from 1.3j to 2.0d was priced >>at $25 in an upgrade letter I received a year or so back. Seems I've >>already lost my free upgrades. >Only if Lance knows you run MACOS. Otherwise you may still be able to >upgrade. Newest version I am aware of is v2.11. First of all, even if I did run MACOS, there is no way Lance would know about it. The upgrade notice for $25.00 was sent automatically to me bacause I am a registered GBBS board. >/// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are >| |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing > \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the >greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them." [ Call... 9600bps/60meg ][ Drew Rudman ] [ The Charge ][ ] [ Apple ][ IBM ][ Internet: drudman@hpiosa.corp.hp.com ] [ (415) 321-4713 ][ The Charge BBS: Axe Slinger (#1) ]
geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) (06/07/91)
In-Reply-To: message from greg@hoss.unl.edu If GBBS's online full screen editor requires ProTERM Special Emulation, that sorta rules out full screen editing for people without Apple //'s or people WITH Apple //'s but without ProTERM, doesn't it? With ProLine, you use the Televideo (tvi912) emulation, or other selected optional emulations for full screen editing. It is MUCH more versatile for users of many different computers. Chris Chris Moylan | ProLine: geniusman@pro-hindugods CoSysop: Hindu Love Gods BBS | Internet: geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com 313/644-0481 | UUCP: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman 300-9600 bps, v.32/v.42/v.42bis | ARPA: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman@nosc.mil
dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) (06/07/91)
> In article <1991Jun3.180606.29748@unlinfo.unl.edu> greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig > Lury Jr.) writes: >cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) writes: > >>unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > > >>> But I know that ACOS doesn't have arrays (or at least didn't when > >>>I looked at it last summer to write a full screen editor in).. No arrays > >>>makes a hell of a lot of stuff a pain to write. > > > >>No, ACOS may not have arrays, but MACOS does. Most people prefer to use > >>MACOS over ACOS, as it does have arrays, both one and two dimensional. > > > >However if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can > >kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. MACOS is just what its name says, "Modified ACOS"... If you have paid for ACOS and are legally running a GBBS, you can do whatever the heck you want to it, including modifying ACOS, since you paid for the thing... Running a board off MACOS when you never bought ACOS is another story, though... Just for the record, I was also an ACOS SysOp and I switched to a BASIC program, EBBS (sort of like Proline, but not as powerful or as expensive :)... It's a much more flexible program than anything in ACOS ever was... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Daniel M. Zimmerman InterNet - dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com TFF Enterprises America Online - Surak TFF CompuServe - 76407,2246 "Learn reason above all. Learn clear thought; learn to know what is from what seems to be, and what you wish to be. This is the key to everything: the truth of reality, the reality of truth. What IS will set you free." - Surak Of Vulcan
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) (06/08/91)
geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) writes: >If GBBS's online full screen editor requires ProTERM Special Emulation, >that sorta rules out full screen editing for people without Apple //'s or >people WITH Apple //'s but without ProTERM, doesn't it? The latter is a strange point. The remote user will need something that can do more than vanilla ASCII, or else a full screen editor would be impossible (or at least very improbable :-). >With ProLine, you >use the Televideo (tvi912) emulation, or other selected optional emulations >for full screen editing. It is MUCH more versatile for users of many >different computers. One can use that argument against IBM systems who only allow full screen editor access to those who have ANSI. Is turnabout fair play? :-) Unfortunately the GBBS "Pro" package does not include a standard package for emulations like termcaps. The PSE editor, (BlackSpring,) being designed with PSE in mind, does allow you to use some abilities of PSE itself, like the inclusion of graphics in the editor easily. For some, that might not be an advantage. METAL comes with one as part of the program. After being on the support board for awhile and seeing the messages there, one phrase came to mind: "METAL -- the power to overuse graphic characters just like the IBM users." Again, it depends on your perspective on whether that is good or bad. :-) >Chris Moylan >Internet: geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) (06/09/91)
dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) writes: >greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) writes: >>cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) writes: >>>No, ACOS may not have arrays, but MACOS does. Most people prefer to use >>>MACOS over ACOS, as it does have arrays, both one and two dimensional. >>However if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can >>kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. >MACOS is just what its name says, "Modified ACOS"... If you have paid for ACOS >and are legally running a GBBS, you can do whatever the heck you want to it, >including modifying ACOS, since you paid for the thing... Running a board off >MACOS when you never bought ACOS is another story, though... However, it isn't you that modified ACOS, it was a third party distributing the modified version. That in itself is illegal. Since you are then running a knock off of ACOS, not real ACOS, I believe L&L can refuse support for that product. Why should he support something he never wrote (MACOS)? >Daniel M. Zimmerman InterNet - dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com > TFF Enterprises America Online - Surak TFF CompuServe - 76407,2246 -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."
danield@pro-grouch.cts.com (Daniel Davidson) (06/09/91)
>>If GBBS's online full screen editor requires ProTERM Special Emulation, >>that sorta rules out full screen editing for people without Apple //'s or >>people WITH Apple //'s but without ProTERM, doesn't it? [ stuff about some form terninal emulation be necessary deleted.] >One can use that argument against IBM systems who only allow full screen >editor access to those who have ANSI. Is turnabout fair play? :-) It's not turn about, as you can use other emulation with the same editor under proline. Just set your termcap to the flavor that your computer uses, and your all set. >Unfortunately the GBBS "Pro" package does not include a standard package >for emulations like termcaps. The PSE editor, (BlackSpring,) being >designed with PSE in mind, does allow you to use some abilities of PSE >itself, like the inclusion of graphics in the editor easily. The point some other people were making is that it *ONLY* works with ProTerm emulation, where the ProLine editor will with a wide variety of terminals. Daniel (sysop@pro-grouch)
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) (06/11/91)
danield@pro-grouch.cts.com (Daniel Davidson) writes: >greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) writes: >>@ () writes: >>>If GBBS's online full screen editor requires ProTERM Special Emulation, >>>that sorta rules out full screen editing for people without Apple //'s or >>>people WITH Apple //'s but without ProTERM, doesn't it? >>One can use that argument against IBM systems who only allow full screen >>editor access to those who have ANSI. Is turnabout fair play? :-) >It's not turn about, as you can use other emulation with the same editor >under proline. Just set your termcap to the flavor that your >computer uses, and your all set. Agreed. However, I was stating that even IBM systems use the same `unfairness' of limiting full-screen access to those with the one emulation, but also they share the advantage of using emulation-specific features which would not be available to editors which can swap emulations like ProLine's. Besides, the line-mode editor isn't that bad at all, and will take advantage of the ability of the remote terminal having a non-destruct backspace. The dot commands can be used in ways that almost make entering "done" on a line to get to the editor's command line unnecessary. >The point some other people were making is that it *ONLY* works with ProTerm >emulation, where the ProLine editor will with a wide variety of terminals. The point I was making was that, due to design, a ProTERM specific editor would have some advantages to an editor designed for a wide variety of terminals. I make no statements that either is better, just that they have different design criteria. >Daniel >(sysop@pro-grouch) -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."
tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) (06/11/91)
In article<676362108.40@egsgate.FidoNet.Org>Todd.South@f98.n250.z1.FidoNet.Org (Todd South) writes: > >In article<1991Jun3.180606.29748@unlinfo.unl.edu> greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury >Jr.) writes: >>cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) writes: >>>unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: Would someone on the FidoNet echo please forward this to the respective sysadm. I can't remember the procedure but I know for a fact that I do not have a Fido account. Here's the header - please correct this as we don't need massive loops. >From: Todd.South@f98.n250.z1.FidoNet.Org (Todd South) Subject: Re: ACOS/GBBS (was:Re: MD-BASIC (was:Re: Apple ][ BBS Software)) Message-ID: <676362108.40@egsgate.FidoNet.Org> Date: 5 Jun 91 09:03:20 GMT Sender: Uucp@egsgate.FidoNet.Org Lines: 46 -- -- tsouth@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!tsouth Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) Voice: +1 503 646-8257 Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
matthew@pro-nka.cts.com (Matthew McGehrin) (06/14/91)
In-Reply-To: message from danield@pro-grouch.cts.com >>One can use that argument against IBM systems who only allow full screen >>editor access to those who have ANSI. Is turnabout fair play? :-) >It's not turn about, as you can use other emulation with the same editor >under proline. Just set your termcap to the flavor that your >computer uses, and your all set. I own a //e and can "use" ansi full screen editors with my proterm. Same thing with GBBS pro. Proline and GBBS both have a "line" editor that is available to all users. However the "fullscreen" editor is only available to computers that have "televideo" in proline case, and proterm special in GBBS case. I think that all Apple users should own a copy of proterm. Then they would know what we are talking about. >>Unfortunately the GBBS "Pro" package does not include a standard package >>for emulations like termcaps. The PSE editor, (BlackSpring,) being >>designed with PSE in mind, does allow you to use some abilities of PSE >>itself, like the inclusion of graphics inQ!%Q=IM%1e95) >The point some other people were making is that it *ONLY* works with >ProTerm emulation, where the ProLine editor will with a wide variety > of terminals. GBBS pro can be modified to use ansi or pse or anything you wish. Its up to the operator. Now if proline had a full screen ANSI editor, that would be something to talk about. +------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | Internet: matthew@pro-nka.cts.com | Pro-Nka : 201-944-3102 : 9600/v32/v42 | | uucp: crash!pro-nka!matthew | Leonia, New Jersey Intel 9600EX | | | | | All thoughts are mine. If you have | a different idea, email it or post it.| +------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) (06/14/91)
> From: greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) > > dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) writes: > >greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) writes: > >>cchen@xcluud.sccsi.com (Conway Chen) writes: > > >>>No, ACOS may not have arrays, but MACOS does. Most people prefer to use > >>>MACOS over ACOS, as it does have arrays, both one and two dimensional. > > >>However if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can > >>kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. > > >MACOS is just what its name says, "Modified ACOS"... If you have paid for > ACOS >and are legally running a GBBS, you can do whatever the heck you want > to it, >including modifying ACOS, since you paid for the thing... Running a > board off >MACOS when you never bought ACOS is another story, though... > > However, it isn't you that modified ACOS, it was a third party > distributing the modified version. That in itself is illegal. Since you > are then running a knock off of ACOS, not real ACOS, I believe L&L can > refuse support for that product. Why should he support something he never > wrote (MACOS)? > > >Daniel M. Zimmerman InterNet - dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com > > TFF Enterprises America Online - Surak TFF CompuServe - > 76407,2246 > -- > /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are > | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing > \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the > greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to > them." I didn't say he should support MACOS... I DID say that he can't refuse you support of ACOS if you wish to upgrade it, if you own a legally obtained copy. Just because you bought ACOS and are registered with Lance doesn't mean you have to RUN it, but you are still entitled to support... Besides, it doesn't say anywhere in the GBBS manual that modifying ACOS is illegal. As long as one owns a legal copy, one is entitled to support (unless you copy it for others).. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Daniel M. Zimmerman InterNet - dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com TFF Enterprises America Online - Surak TFF CompuServe - 76407,2246 "Learn reason above all. Learn clear thought; learn to know what is from what seems to be, and what you wish to be. This is the key to everything: the truth of reality, the reality of truth. What IS will set you free." - Surak Of Vulcan
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) (06/14/91)
dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) writes: >greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) writes: >>dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) writes: >>>greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) writes: >>>>if Lancey discovers you are running MACOS instead of ACOS, you can >>>>kiss all rights to upgrades and support away. >>>MACOS is just what its name says, "Modified ACOS"... If you have paid for >>>ACOS and are legally running a GBBS, you can do whatever the heck you want >>>to it, including modifying ACOS, since you paid for the thing... Running a >>>board off MACOS when you never bought ACOS is another story, though... >>However, it isn't you that modified ACOS, it was a third party >>distributing the modified version. That in itself is illegal. Since you >>are then running a knock off of ACOS, not real ACOS, I believe L&L can >>refuse support for that product. Why should he support something he never >>wrote (MACOS)? >I didn't say he should support MACOS... I DID say that he can't refuse you >support of ACOS if you wish to upgrade it, if you own a legally obtained copy. However, it is the legal status of MACOS which he is using to justify cutting you out of support. Plus, remember you aren't running ACOS. Therefore, any questions you may have on the language are questions about MACOS, not ACOS. They don't apply. Also, you can't expect him to help you with GBBS "Pro", since it isn't running in its approved language anymore. Who knows if it was a bug in the stock code or something wrong with your compiler, which isn't the approved one. >Just because you bought ACOS and are registered with Lance doesn't mean you >have to RUN it, but you are still entitled to support... If I switch to, say, METAL, I would still expect support for ACOS- and GBBS-related problems. I plan to still write code for that platform, and retain ownership of it. If then Lance tries to say that I'm not entitled to it, he may have a legal battle. I think there was something about loss of rights due to illegal activity. Receiving a copy of MACOS that was not obtained before its distribution was halted I think would fit in that category. MACOS itself is illegal. >Besides, it doesn't say anywhere in the GBBS manual that modifying ACOS is >illegal. As long as one owns a legal copy, one is entitled to support (unless >you copy it for others).. >Daniel M. Zimmerman InterNet - dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."
shrinkit@Apple.COM (Andrew Nicholas) (06/15/91)
In article <1991Jun14.165445.14915@unlinfo.unl.edu> greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) writes: >dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) writes: >>greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) writes: >>>>MACOS is just what its name says, "Modified ACOS"... If you have paid for >>>>ACOS and are legally running a GBBS, you can do whatever the heck you want >>>>to it, including modifying ACOS, since you paid for the thing... Running a >>>>board off MACOS when you never bought ACOS is another story, though... Unless a great hoard of people complain, could you fellas take this to email? Even though I know that messages like these are what kill files were created for, I've resisted so far -- but I'm not sure that proline or other net services have "kill" files (do they? Don't reply to this topic because I won't see it -- this topic is going in my kill file asap). In any case, please, please, please be nice to us and take this to email?? :-) thanks, andy -- Andy Nicholas GEnie & America-Online: shrinkit Apple IIGS System Software CompuServe: 70771,2615 Apple Computer, Inc. InterNET: shrinkit@apple.com
geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) (06/16/91)
In-Reply-To: message from matthew@pro-nka.cts.com > In-Reply-To: message from danield@pro-grouch.cts.com > > > >>One can use that argument against IBM systems who only allow full screen > >>editor access to those who have ANSI. Is turnabout fair play? :-) > > >It's not turn about, as you can use other emulation with the same editor > >under proline. Just set your termcap to the flavor that your > >computer uses, and your all set. > > I own a //e and can "use" ansi full screen editors with my proterm. > > Same thing with GBBS pro. Proline and GBBS both have a "line" editor that > is available to all users. However the "fullscreen" editor is only available > to computers that have "televideo" in proline case, and proterm special in > GBBS case. I think that all Apple users should own a copy of proterm. Then > they would know what we are talking about. > > >>Unfortunately the GBBS "Pro" package does not include a standard package > >>for emulations like termcaps. The PSE editor, (BlackSpring,) being > >>designed with PSE in mind, does allow you to use some abilities of PSE > >>itself, like the inclusion of graphics inQ!%Q=IM%1e95) > > > >The point some other people were making is that it *ONLY* works with > >ProTerm emulation, where the ProLine editor will with a wide variety > > of terminals. > > GBBS pro can be modified to use ansi or pse or anything you wish. Its up to > the operator. Now if proline had a full screen ANSI editor, that would be > something to talk about. > > >+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ > | Internet: matthew@pro-nka.cts.com | Pro-Nka : 201-944-3102 : 9600/v32/v42 > | uucp: crash!pro-nka!matthew | Leonia, New Jersey Intel 9600EX > | | > | All thoughts are mine. If you have | a different idea, email it or post it. >+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ You've missed our pont entirely. The point IS OTHER computers CAN support Televideo (or Soroc, etc.) which will allow for full screen editing on different systems. Get it? ProTerm Special K emulation only works on Apple // systems. Chris Chris Moylan | ProLine: geniusman@pro-hindugods CoSysop: Hindu Love Gods BBS | Internet: geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com 313/644-0481 | UUCP: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman 300-9600 bps, v.32/v.42/v.42bis | ARPA: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman@nosc.mil
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Life...) (06/18/91)
geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) writes: >matthew@pro-nka.cts.com () writes: >>I own a //e and can "use" ansi full screen editors with my proterm. >>Same thing with GBBS pro. Proline and GBBS both have a "line" editor that >>is available to all users. However the "fullscreen" editor is only available >>to computers that have "televideo" in proline case, and proterm special in >>GBBS case. I believe ProLine can use more than just the Televideo emulation. That is the point raised. However, ProLine lacks the ability to include graphics in the message, which the design of the Blackspring editor explicitly allows, which GBBS "Pro" uses. >>GBBS pro can be modified to use ansi or pse or anything you wish. Its up to >>the operator. Now if proline had a full screen ANSI editor, that would be >>something to talk about. I haven't encountered an ANSI editor for ACOS-based systems. Information? >You've missed our po[i]nt entirely. The point IS OTHER computers CAN support >Televideo (or Soroc, etc.) which will allow for full screen editing on >different systems. Get it? ProTerm Special K emulation only works on Apple >// systems. My point is that there is a tradeoff between having an editor which can be switched between emulations and one that is designed to take advantage of the features of one system. Each has advantages over the other. With that presented, let those concerned choose which they prefer and leave it at that. >Chris Moylan | ProLine: geniusman@pro-hindugods >CoSysop: Hindu Love Gods BBS | Internet: geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com Oh, and did you really need to all that text >>> deep to make that one statement? -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."