[comp.text.tex] New Common TeX

lpilindy@lindy.stanford.edu (Captain Beyond) (11/04/90)

In preparation to update Common TeX to version 3.0,
i have made the following changes:

1. cleaned up strings, no string pool. i hope to extract all the strings
soon and use a formatted print routine. but internally strings arent
stored as counted vectors in a string pool.

2. no memory array, no "memorywords, halfwords, etc".
 C structures are used, with dynamic allocation.

3. restructured symbol table. no eqtb table, etc. symbols are still treated
as "named registers", but the global registers dont share structure
with the symbol table.

4. restructured font table. 

5. simplified type system.

6. no virtex. these is only an initex, with undumped versions for 
tex, latex, etc.

7. all bug fixes to 2.95. actually beyond that, but i am waiting
for 3.0 to distribute these.

8. ad nauseum....

there are more things on my list to do, but i think the current version
is "stable". the changes are quite extensive, so i didnt bother keeping
anyone up to date. hopefully this will no longer be the case. i dont
think the changes to 3.0 will be as numerous as these.
but i would like to get versions to people "interested" in steering
Common TeX to 3.0. i am open to suggestions. i am also on the Internet,
so i would value feedback from sites. portability needs to be addressed
and i would rather do this with 2.95. obviously, using new C features
will introduce shortcomings in my programming. 

please wait for version 3.0 for general inquiries for obtaining
Common TeX. i am interested in reconnecting with TeX hackers
for the moment. but i will make Common TeX 2.95 and Metafont 1.0
available for FTP access, if desired.

please send messages to monardo@cshl.org. we dont yet have a news
feed. but all mail will be answered.

/pat

rusty@belch.Berkeley.EDU (rusty wright) (11/06/90)

Gack, you mean someone's still beating that dead horse?  I mean, it's
stiff; it's drawing flies!  I can't believe it.  Use web2c; it
automatically generates the .c files from the web files so you get the
newest versions automagically.

lpilindy@lindy.stanford.edu (Captain Beyond) (11/07/90)

people SHOULD use web2c if they just want to install it.
Common TeX is my hobby and i hope to work on it for a long time.
i dont enjoy working with translators so i have little choice.
i am sure if i compared notes with people who worked with translators,
i would find two things:
1. that they know more about the tranlator than TeX
2. that they didnt enjoy themselves. 

/pat

pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) (11/09/90)

On 5 Nov 90 19:47:04 GMT, rusty@belch.Berkeley.EDU (rusty wright) said:

rusty> Gack, you mean someone's still beating that dead horse?  I mean, it's
rusty> stiff; it's drawing flies!  I can't believe it.  Use web2c; it
rusty> automatically generates the .c files from the web files so you get the
rusty> newest versions automagically.

You must be joking of course. I'd rather have (and I am not alone in
this) any time Monardo's Common TeX than Knuth's implementation of TeX
(have you dared to read it?), to which your description above applies
fairly well, especially if it is passed thru web2c (its embalmer).

In order of increasing preference of TeX implementations *for Unix*:

1) The Knuth version passed thru web and compiled by a pascal compiler.

2) The Knuth version passed thru web2c and compiled by a C compiler.

3) The Knuth version passed thru web and p2c and compiled by a C
compiler.  Tolerable. Usually faster and easier to work with than either
of the above two hacks.

4) Common TeX 2.93. Not bad, still twice as slow as troff. But smaller,
simpler and more comprehensible and Unix portable than Knuth's version
variously preprocessed.

5) Hopefully soon, Common TeX 2.95. Written in C using C as it should
be, without fixed table sizes, memory arrays, etc... Should be as fast
or faster than troff.

Note that Common TeX stil has the defect that in order to pass the trip
test is has to have the same grettable, verbose, ridiculous user
interface as Knuth's TeX. As soon as I get Common TeX 2.95 I will put in
a more Unixish user interface, conditionally compiled.
--
Piercarlo Grandi                   | ARPA: pcg%uk.ac.aber.cs@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Dept of CS, UCW Aberystwyth        | UUCP: ...!mcsun!ukc!aber-cs!pcg
Penglais, Aberystwyth SY23 3BZ, UK | INET: pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk

mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Doug McDonald) (11/11/90)

In article <PCG.90Nov9152114@odin.cs.aber.ac.uk> pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) writes:
>On 5 Nov 90 19:47:04 GMT, rusty@belch.Berkeley.EDU (rusty wright) said:
>
>rusty> Gack, you mean someone's still beating that dead horse?  I mean, it's
>rusty> stiff; it's drawing flies!  I can't believe it.  Use web2c; it
>rusty> automatically generates the .c files from the web files so you get the
>rusty> newest versions automagically.
>
>You must be joking of course. I'd rather have 
So would I
>(and I am not alone in
>this) 
You got that right!!!

>any time Monardo's Common TeX than Knuth's implementation of TeX
>(have you dared to read it?),
No!!! (PUKE RETCH!!)

>to which your description above applies
>fairly well, especially if it is passed thru web2c (its embalmer).
>
>In order of increasing preference of TeX implementations *for Unix*:
>
>1) The Knuth version passed thru web and compiled by a pascal compiler.
I don't AHVE any Pascal compilers --- I don't need a lobotomy either. 

>
>2) The Knuth version passed thru web2c and compiled by a C compiler.
>
I tried on two systems and never even got it close to starting to working.

>3) The Knuth version passed thru web and p2c and compiled by a C
>compiler.  Tolerable. Usually faster and easier to work with than either
>of the above two hacks.
>
>4) Common TeX 2.93. Not bad, still twice as slow as troff. But smaller,
>simpler and more comprehensible and Unix portable than Knuth's version
>variously preprocessed.
I tried this on both Unix and <<MS-DOS>> and on Unix it compiled and ran
just fine the very first time. On the PC I just had to fix the filename
syntax, that is all.

>
>5) Hopefully soon, Common TeX 2.95. Written in C using C as it should
>be, without fixed table sizes, memory arrays, etc... Should be as fast
>or faster than troff.

Anxiously waiting for this. It should totally obsolete the Knuth's version.

>
>Note that Common TeX stil has the defect that in order to pass the trip
>test is has to have the same grettable, verbose, ridiculous user
>interface as Knuth's TeX. As soon as I get Common TeX 2.95 I will put in
>a more Unixish user interface, conditionally compiled.
Please post when you're done - and please make sure it is not TOO Unix
specific. Unix-ish in concept but not tied tightly to Unix itself
would be perfect.


>Piercarlo Grandi                   | ARPA: pcg%uk.ac.aber.cs@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Thanks  for the nice remarks.

Doug McDonald

bjornl@sics.se (Bj|rn Lisper) (11/12/90)

In article <PCG.90Nov9152114@odin.cs.aber.ac.uk> pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk
(Piercarlo Grandi) writes:
>Note that Common TeX stil has the defect that in order to pass the trip
>test is has to have the same grettable, verbose, ridiculous user
>interface as Knuth's TeX. As soon as I get Common TeX 2.95 I will put in
>a more Unixish user interface, conditionally compiled.

This perhaps answers my inquiry here some time ago about the ability of TeX
to pipe input and output in a unix environment. May I suggest that you make
standard input for source and standard output for dvi default? (Note that
this requires the error handling to be improved, so that TeX never can "get
stuck" at a certain part of the text.) A simple mechanism to use run-time
provided arguments from the command line would also be handy. And yes, it
would also be nice to be able to kill a TeX process with ctrl-C.

Just some suggestions.

Bjorn Lisper

iwm@doc.ic.ac.uk (Ian Moor) (11/17/90)

   In article <PCG.90Nov9152114@odin.cs.aber.ac.uk> pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) writes:
   >
   >Note that Common TeX stil has the defect that in order to pass the trip
   >test is has to have the same grettable, verbose, ridiculous user
   >interface as Knuth's TeX. As soon as I get Common TeX 2.95 I will put in
   >a more Unixish user interface, conditionally compiled.

Don't make it conditionally compiled, make it a run time choice. I like
explanatory error messages! You might consider ed's `?' as the ultimate error
messsage, but I would like some more help. Being able to enter corrections
if there is an error near the end of  a long document is very convenient.
By all means accept 
  tex -r
for rude (i.e. nothing but ?) and -t for terse messages.

I don't want to criticize the author of Common TeX, but surely the same
effort could have produced a good portable optimizing Pascal compiler
for Unix, and thus all the tools written in Pascal, not just TeX.

--
Ian W Moor
  ARPA: iwm@doc.ic.ac.uk
  JANET: iwm@uk.ac.ic.doc
           
 Department of Computing,   Lecture: The transfer of information from
 Imperial College.                   the lecturer's notes to the students'
 180 Queensgate                      without passing through the brains of
 London SW7 UK.                      either.