[comp.periphs.scsi] NEED MORE HELP!!

jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) (07/31/90)

In article <3757@tmiuv0.uucp> rick@tmiuv0.uucp writes:
>Quantum drives don't actually do a low-level format.  Essentially, they
>recalibrate (reseek track 0) and report "Done".  There are a few other
>drives which do this.  "SCSI is a standard that isn't".
>
>To my knowledge, the only way to low-level format a Quantum is to send it
>back to Quantum.  Also, since no low-level format is actually done, Quantums
>are prime candidates for the "0 in block 0" FFS bug.  There are other drives
>with the same problem.  Hey, SCSI drive makers: either implement the command
>or refuse it.  Don't fake it out.  It seems that several of the manufacturers
>merely take the SCSI standard as a "strong suggestion".  Perhaps we need a
>new division of the police known as the "SCSI Squad".

	Well, if I remember right, the SCSI standard doesn't say what a
drive has to do the the media for Format_Unit, and that the data in the
sectors is not guaranteed to have any particular data in it (which of course
means that the old data that was there is allowable).  I suspect that if the
quantum thought it had an unformatted disk (by whatever means) it would
go out and write the sectoring information.

	In particular, Format_Unit does not guarantee a media check, even if
it does go and format every track.  You can supply bad block lists to
Format_Unit if you know where they are (the normal default is to always map
out the sectors the manufacturer marked as bad).  We normally recommend you
do a Verify (Verify Data on Drive in HDToolBox) on the drive and map out
any bad or marginal sectors after a Format_Unit for safety.

-- 
Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Common phrase heard at Amiga Devcon '89: "It's in there!"

hargen@pdn.paradyne.com (Bill Hargen) (08/07/90)

In article <3757@tmiuv0.uucp> rick@tmiuv0.uucp writes:
>Quantum drives don't actually do a low-level format.  Essentially, they
>recalibrate (reseek track 0) and report "Done".  There are a few other
>drives which do this.  "SCSI is a standard that isn't".
>
>To my knowledge, the only way to low-level format a Quantum is to send it
>back to Quantum.

I have been working on writing a SCSI driver and the Prodrive 170S is one
of the drives that I'm working with.  I also noticed that the format command
doesn't seem to do a real format (the heads jump around for about 5 seconds
and then it claims it's done).  The sales rep told me the same thing.
Apparently Quantum believes that if a format is really necessary, then
something is very wrong and the drive should be returned to the factory.

However, try this:
  - issue the format command
  - before it has a chance to finish, PULL THE POWER (a SCSI bus reset may
    be sufficient, I just took the more direct approach :-)
  - now try another format

I can't guarantee that this will cause it to do a real format, but it takes
quite a bit longer and "sounds right".  I too wish that drives weren't this
"smart".  Damn it, if I say format, I mean format!

Hope this helps.

--
Bill Hargen				AT&T Paradyne
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Phone: (813) 530-8655			P.O. Box 2826
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