kcarroll@utzoo.UUCP (Kieran A. Carroll) (08/22/84)
* Some time ago, one of the folks who works for NASA posted a description of how to go about applying for work there. If somebody has that article saved away, I'd like to get a copy of it, if possie. Mail would me most appropriate, rather than a newsgroup posting, I think. Many thanks! -Kieran A. Carroll ...decvax!utzoo!kcarroll
kcarroll@utzoo.UUCP (Kieran A. Carroll) (09/04/84)
I recently solicited a number of messages from people in the know in various NASA offices, and from people who have saved previous net messages from such folks, concerning HOW TO GO ABOUT GETTING A JOB WITH NASA. I said that anybody who'd like a copy of all the messages that were sent me need but ask, and I'd send them by mail. Well...I've had something like 15 requests so far, and some of the replies that I've sent seem not to have gotten through. I am going to use this to excuse me for sending the following VERY LONG article over news; sorry to all you folks who don't want to read it, but there seem to be quite a few people who >do< want to; so, here goes... (ps: much of the information herein came originally from the keyboard of Eugene Miya, at NASA Ames. Thanks much for the original postings, Gene! -Kieran A. Carroll ...decvax!utzoo!kcarroll) ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------ > From eugene@ames-lm.UUCP Sun Feb 6 01:28:16 206 > Relay-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site wateng.UUCP > Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ames-lm.UUCP > Path: wateng!watmath!clyde!burl!mgnetp!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!amd70!qumix!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!hao!ames-lm!eugene > From: eugene@ames-lm.UUCP > Newsgroups: net.columbia > Subject: Some word from NASA (long) > Message-ID: <262@ames-lm.UUCP> > Date: Tue, 22-May-84 14:39:25 EDT > Article-I.D.: ames-lm.262 > Posted: Tue May 22 14:39:25 1984 > Date-Received: Thu, 21-Jun-84 12:13:54 EDT > Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA > Lines: 174 > Xref: 363 208 > > > (Somewhat long) > Topics: Private space vectures > Societies on Space > Applying to NASA > > 1) > > NASA is not exactly set up to assist private space ventures. NASA is supposed > to help spread information, but this runs a foul in several ways. NASA does > work in the public domain, and many companies don't want to distribute their > information for a competitive edge. This is a problem obviously for those > companies. Information is there, you just have to sift for it. > > Also, NASA is not very good at PR. It suffers many of the same problems as > other US Govt. agencies like HUD and the old HEW. I am aware of firms > doing private space in Texas and locally in the Bay Area. In general: > firms in areas with lots of money to begin with, an extension of model > rocketry in some ways. The problem here is one of physics and mechanics: > it is difficult and complex to actually get a satellite off the ground > (maybe more difficult in some ways than assembling nuclear devices). > I say this from working on SEASAT and VOYAGER. I am trying to release > work on a TM and work on a recuriting brochure. Can't imagine the > paperwork. > > 2) > Space societies: the official NASA position is one of "beign negligent" > (not my words). I am partial to the Planetary Society (Bruce Murray > and Carl Sagan) and the Viking Fund. I know those who started the World > Space Foundation. The problem is too little money being spread too thin > (another NASA problem). Most NASA higher ups tend to disregard this groups > because their "time is too precious." Yes, I guess I am a space nut > and want to see space as a means of "speaking for Earth." I think on the > whole these societies are something of a waste (don't mean to offend anybody). > It to bad, too. All that energy. > > I like the idea of the Viking fund supporting existing data collection. > The WSF's ideas of actually sending a solar sail into space, are neat too! > Other societies spend too much for things too far into the future > [it is important to have an imagination (something some NASA bureaucrats > lack, to the surprise of some) this is the role of dreams such as those > of Robert Goddard, but I really want to put something out there now!]. > > The militarization of space is something that worries me (and others). > I only hope we are not too late. NASA is a civilian Agency, but I > have met more and more former military types the farther I wander from > the Center I started at. Not to fear, entirely. > > 3) > Applying to NASA (Again). > NASA desparately needs computer scientists and EEs. They are many obvious > factors for this. Most critically, they need an infusion of new blood, > people familiar with UNIX/C, distributed networks, interactive single user > workstations and AI (many other things like VLSI, CAD, too). > Our tendency is for advanced degrees. > > The best things to do: If you are in HS or undergrad. Learn as much as > possible (and more). Finish your education and stay on top of what's > happening in space. Write a resume (hardcopy as well as electronic). > You need to go to an office of the US government and get a form 171. > This is the standard form for US government jobs. > > Send this form and resume to a NASA Center which you are interested in. > (Snail mail) You should have some idea what you are interested in. > You need to be willing to relocate. This is a brief break down of where > to send your resume. (Alphabetically) > > Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA 94035 in Silicon Valley. > (also has the Dryden Flight Research Center) > We do aerodynamic research, flight simulation, wind tunnels, > we developed the infamous shuttle tiles (not the glue!), > the 35 degree swept wing characteristic of most modern jets > was developed here. The Rogallo hang glider was developed > by one of our people in his spare time. The shuttle > lands at our site of EAFB (Dryden). They just got a new > Elxsi 6400. We run numerous UNIX systems as well as a Cray-XMP > And we will be getting a Cray-2. There are tons of other work, > (such as manned vehicle system research), but I should be brief. > > Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD just outside > Washington DC. Oversees unmanned, near Earth missions such > as weather, Landsats, etc. Oversees means the day to day mission > operations, not what is done with the data. They have a Cyber 205 > and a thing called the Massively Parallel Processor. (16,384 processors > for image processing (8 per chip). I have a contact if you are > willing to work on Amdahls and IBMs (A few VAXen runing VMS). > They are considering UTS at this time. Mail me if you want his > name and address. > > NASA HQ, Washington DC. Located right across the street from the > Air and Space Museum. Coordinates more than researches. Not > much to see if you should visit. If you send a resume here, > what happens to it is up to question, but you can send a copy at > least. > > The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology. > Pasadena, CA 91106. JPL has resisted a name dedication and is > known by some as the Just Plain Laboratory. > They are in charge of the Deep Space Network and most deep space > missions: Voyager, Galileo, etc. They do some local earth stuff. > They have probably one of the best computer graphics and > image processing facilties in the world. > JPL is a contact lab to NASA from Caltech. This has advantages: > in CA, associated with one of the finest schools in the world > (Caltech) which can give advanced ideas. It has problems, too. > Smog, facilities problems. They recently came on the net. > To apply here, don't send a 171. Send resume to the employment > office or connections. > > Johnson Manned Space Center, Houston TX > This the mission control for the Shuttle missions after liftoff. > There are simulators, lots of training facilities. They have > the Lunar Receiving Lab from the Apollo missions. They should > on the net shortly via HP9000s. > > Kennedy Space Flight Center, FL > This is where the shuttle takes off and lands. A large physical > site, mostly for the preparation of launches, and very little to > do after they get up into space (like Goddard, JPL). > > Marshall Space Flight Center Huntsville AL. > This is where testing of materials, and systems for manned space > goes on. I have not visited, but you might note that many of these > NASA sites are located in the Deep South (cheap land and other > reasons). > > Wallops Island, VA Another smaller launch site like Kennedy. > > No center name. A facility in the area near Santa Barbara, CA > to be associated with Vandenberg AFB for polar launches. Not clear > if it will be an office, or what. > > Manned space station. It is planned that a permanently manned > space station will be the next major NASA Center. > > Each of these of fair too brief. I am willing to relay (for net inhabitants) > those resumes to the appropriate area of interest, or establish a > dialog, if interested. I did this once before, and I got three or four > responses from the entire net (including ARPA). [Is that a lot of > interest in space?] > > Alternative: You can work for a NASA contractor. They are many: > Rockwell, McDon-Doug, even AT&T. Apply to them, ask around. > Technicolor Graphics (EROS data center), Informatics, Intermetrics, SDC, > lots of companies. Be careful! You might not be working with space. > The problem is you will not be able to work into policy making areas > easily. (Second man on the totem pole. Last hired, first laid-off). > There are also smaller specialized contractors such as our newly formed > Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science (RIACS, ames-lm!riacs!rac > <Roberta A. Cummings>) or ICASE. You should have an advanced degree. > Director is Peter Denning. ICASE's path is uvacs!icase!%s. > There are other things like the Goddard Space Institute. > > Special regard for summer hires: it too late for this year! I will post > something on the net in Nov/Dec time frame. You should apply around Jan1/15 > Anybody who's been to a University knows that anything can be done with > a signatures, so, if you are still looking Something might still be > possible. > > --eugene miya (Better than working on bombs) > NASA Ames Reseach Center > {hplabs,hao,research,dual}!ames-lm!statvax!eugene (UUCP) > emiya@ames-vmsb (ARPA) > > Smail: MS 233-14 > NASA Ames Research Center > Moffett Field, CA 94035 > Phone: (hard to reach me) (415)-965-6453 > (Messages) (415)-965-5197 > > If you are getting a CS/EE PhD, stop by! > I will give you a personal tour of the facility. > We frequently post our computer science seminar to the local > Bay Area net. Watch for us. > > >From ucbvax!rlb@RIACS.ARPA Sat Aug 25 14:33:58 1984 remote from ihnp4 Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA10915; 25 Aug 84 14:33:58 CDT (Sat) Received: from riacs.ARPA (riacs.ARPA.ARPA) by UCB-VAX.ARPA (4.24/4.33) id AA02512; Sat, 25 Aug 84 09:36:57 pdt From: Bob Brown <ihnp4!ucbvax!rlb@RIACS.ARPA> Message-Id: <8408251638.AA02318@riacs.ARPA> Received: by riacs.ARPA; Sat, 25 Aug 84 09:38:50 pdt Date: 25 Aug 1984 09:38-PDT (Saturday) To: ihnp4!houxm!mhuxl!ulysses!burl!clyde!watmath!utzoo!kcarroll@BERKELEY Subject: Re: Working for NASA Location: 39.4150 lat -122.0467 lon 34.0 alt Phone: (415)965-5407 The person was Gene Miya, member of the Computational Research and Technology branch at NASA Ames Research Center in Mountain View, CA. He can be reached at hplabs!ames!statvax!eugene or (415)965-6453. Bob Brown RIACS/NASA Ames ---------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Relay-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site shark.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site statvax.UUCP Path: shark!orca!tektronix!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!menlo70!ames-lm!statvax!eugene From: eugene@statvax.UUCP (Eugene miya) Newsgroups: net.space Subject: Applying to NASA Message-ID: <127@statvax.UUCP> Date: Mon, 12-Mar-84 21:35:14 PST Article-I.D.: statvax.127 Posted: Mon Mar 12 21:35:14 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 8-Mar-84 23:21:21 PST Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA Lines: 49 Applying to NASA is like applying to any other Federal Agency. (Ideally). First, you obtain a standard form 171 from any Federal Agency. Fill this out. Then submit it to any of the nine major NASA centers. (Along with a resume.) Then wait. It despends on your background and what you want to do, and what that NASA Center does. (Has anybody described the organization of NASA to the net in recent days? If not, send me mail and I will post a terse description, I have work at four for various lengths of time.) You will get paid Civil Service wages which are maybe competittive in the computer field for about 2 years, after which you will make more than industry, so don't join for the money. The Other problem is that NASA tends to be somewhat backward in using computers (I note the earlier news about turning a perfectly good autonomous system into one which men could manipulate, this is true.). UNIX is unknown turf for lots of NASA people. Seems to be a problem with those who pioneered (not just NASA) computers, seems to stay with existing equipment and vendors (and software). However, things are changing, NASA realizes this and is making efforts to change, so you have a nice badwagon opportunity, if you can stand the wait. If the money is a problem, (I know the wife and kids) you can perhaps join as a contractor to NASA with certain organizations who contract to NASA: IBM, GE, Rockwell, Informatics (who runs this machine), etc. and various universities (Caltech who runs JPL), etc. This is a little bit harder as you must seek out these contractors. Also, unfortunately, contractors as seen as second class civil servants. Few wield `power' (Although I know many who actually are sharper than the surrounding CSes or contractors). Lastly, there are special Institutes and Centers which is many cases are contracted. These are like the Lunar Receiving Lab, ICASE (At Langley RC), RIACS (Here at Ames). These are run by contractors, but have slightly better status. JPL sort of falls into this class (They have third party contractors to NASA). One last point to make about NASA Centers, most are located in the S and SE parts of the country. There are exceptions: Ames and JPL are on the West Coast. Lewis RC is in Ohio, and the Goddard Space Flight Center is in MD. NASA HQ is variously in the N or S which ever is convenient at the time. If you are interested in Ames, send me a resume, we can vtroff it (Let me know the macro package). If there is a need to describe which Center does what, I will post a short description. --eugene miya hplabs!menlo70!ames-lm!statvax!eugene 26-Aug-84 1608 OTA Re: SPACE Digest V4 #134 Date: 9 Mar 84 09:20:34 PST (Friday) From: rounds.pa@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V4 #134 In-reply-to: OTA's message of 09 Mar 84 03:03 PST To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA cc: rounds.pa@PARC-MAXC.ARPA I came to Xerox from NASA Ames only one month ago. I also worked for two NASA Contractors (Informatics and Bendix). I would be happy to fill anyone in on how to apply for work with NASA. I can even give you some names which would help. I might add that I left the Government. NASA Ames does have a very big UNIX contingent and its getting bigger, especially within the Numerical Aerodynamics Simulator Project. There was some idle talk about put UNIX on a CRAY. They thought the better of it, however. NASA needs technical people, especially at Ames. As a Civil Servant, I think you'll find yourself managing the work of contractors. You'll become a project facilitator more than a technical person. This can be very rewarding, depending on what you like. ---------------------------------------------- -Good luck with the job-hunting! -Kieran A. Carroll ...decvax!utzoo!kcarroll