BIG-MOD@SUVM (02/28/90)
BIG-LAN DIGEST Tuesday, 27 February 1990 Volume 2 : Issue 14 Today's Topics: Re: IP routers Re: Science Faculty and Computer Networking RE: General lan questions Fullerton College, a two year institution, prepares lower division Moderated by John Wobus, Syracuse University Relevant addresses: Internet BITNET Submissions: big-lan@suvm.acs.syr.edu BIG-LAN@SUVM Subscriptions: big-lan-request@suvm.acs.syr.edu BIG-REQ@SUVM LISTSERV: listserv@suvm.acs.syr.edu LISTSERV@SUVM Moderator: jmwobus@suvm.acs.syr.edu JMWOBUS@SUVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 04:11:51 -0600 From: Ed Krol <krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: IP routers Two IP addresses on the same wire is not at all a standard way of doing business. A few IP routers (Proteon is one I know others may do as well) allow this, but the facility is designed as a migration tool. Within the community there is not a lot of use of it. You may be able to 'kludge' this facility from any box by putting two interfaces from the VAX say on the same cable one for each interface. Then the software on the box thinks its on two ethernets which have some people using wrong addresses which are usually ignored. The big question I would have is why not trade in the class C for a class B and be done with it in a more standard fashion. ------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 04:38:01 -0600 From: Ed Krol <krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Science Faculty and Computer Networking In info.big-lan you write: > Typical questions are: > We have other, more pressing concerns. Why should we > bother with computer networking? If I were selling this to a campus administration I think the answer here is competetivness in faculty recruitment, education quality.... The future is typically viewed as a distributed environment when dealing with peers you have to be a peer. I think this is more than 'but all our friends are doing it'. Lets say I have the be all and end all program/database in a particular area. It has already gotten to the point that if someone wants it I let them FTP it across the network. Less work for me than making and mailing 100 diskettes. > Who is going to pay for all those long-distance calls > to link into regional and international networks? If you want it to work the campus has to look at it as overhead. In your case all it takes is one short line to SURAnet and your intraApplachian college lines. > What can our science faculty do with e-mail that they > can't do with a telephone and postal mail? Nothing. The question is one of labor costs vs technology costs. Telephone is designed for intensive synchronous communications. I have to get both bodies on the phone at the same time. There is a lot of call setup overhead there so unless the communication requires a lot of dialog or talking usually the overhead is not worth the effort. Postal mail is asynchronous but slow. You toss a packet into the network and wait a week for a response. Impossible due to feedback delay to carry on a conversation. E-mail is in the middle it allows conversations, but asynchronously in a reasonable amount of time. Therefor, it allows your staff to be more efficient. Unfortunantly in a University this does not mean a bigger profit - hence easy justification. There are also discussion groups (e.g. info.big-lan). The typical examples of these uses in an academic environment are the astronomers use of email for the nova and the physicists use for the cold fusion stuff. The whole community was activated overnight. > Why does each faculty person need to have their own > PC or mainframe terminal? It has to be convienent. If it wastes more time than it saves or if its busy every time I want to use it. It ain't worth it. If I have to walk a block I check my email once a day. If its on my desk I check it or send one whenever I get the chance. If I have to walk, I don't have access to notes, files.... ------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 15:26 EST From: Reality is not an Industry Standard <PETERSON@LIUVAX> Subject: RE: General lan questions If you have decided (options=token ring or token ring) to use a TR backbone consider the following options: A. Small lans connected to the backbone w/ a pc bridge. This keeps local lan traffic local. The bridge can run TR to the BB and what ever inside. B. IBM 3270 type connections over TR (3174 or clone controller to TR) C. PC bridge from TR to Ethernet (say maybe SUN or DECNET....) TR has some advantages as a BB, such as fairly even speed. It does not how ever have the huge direct machine support that ethernet has. You might want to look at Proteon's: Internetworking Router (p4200) Supports 802.2, 802.5, DDS, X.25, T1, TCP/IP, DECnet, XNS, Netware IPX backbone supported is FDDI (first half 90) and Pronet-80 Pronet-80 (80 mb TR LAN) Host cards for Multibus, VME, UNI & Q bus, PC/AT, SelBUS Media: IBM type 1 twinax, or fiber Connects to: Ether, Pronet, APRA, DDS & T1 w/ TCP/IP, DECnet, XNS, .... Proteon 508/898/2800 internet addr if you want it. J. Peterson/ LIU-southampton ------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 12:46:15 PST From: CSCHNEE@CALSTATE (CHUCK SCHNEEBECK, FULLERTON COLLEGE) Subject: Fullerton College, a two year institution, prepares lower division Fullerton College, a two year institution, prepares lower division students for transfer to four year institutions and has a large vocational training program. We are in the process of developing a Center for Applied Competitive Technology (CATC) which will provide technology transfer to small and medium size business in Orange County, CA. Initially the center will concentrate on manufacturing and will offer Computer Integrated Manufacturing options to its clients. Computer graphics are becoming increasingly important in both our technical and academic programs. We have a computer graphics lab with forty five 386's and eleven Macintosh IIx's. We expect to develop a similar lab at the CATC. It will be necessary to transfer files and share output devices between the two locations. A plan to network the campus is being prepared with the intention of offering the common network applications (eg. E-MAIL and conferencing). We currently have a broadband on the campus however it does not include any bridges or gateways. We have funding to install a fiber optic backbone which would parallel the broadband. Our problem is, should we invest in bringing the broadband up to speed or should we invest in the fiber optic backbone. Would it be a good investment for us to install fiber considering our graphics needs? Could we expect to handle the traffic generated by transferring graphics files over broadband? Is it valid to assume that FDDI on the backbone would make it more reasonable to move graphics files on our network? We anticipate that there will be an opportunity in the near future to import medical imaging and other types of scientific graphics using our network. Would these applications make a difference? I would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions. Chuck Schneebeck Director of Academic Computing Fullerton College Fullerton, CA 92632 (714) 992-7348 CSCHNEE@CALSTATE ------------------------------------------------------- End of BIG-LAN Digest *********************