JDAVIS@WIDENER.BITNET (02/05/90)
Christian Rock bands have a higher level of morality to adhere to. Bands such
as GNR, Sabbath, Whitesnake just to name a few, can write and sing about what-
ever they want. Stryper is limited to what kind of material they put on an
album. These limitations could be the reason that they don't `crank' like other
bands.
JimSEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/05/90)
Jim, thanks for your H or perhaps not so HO. I thought about that . . . and I
really don't know. I find GnR, and Whitesnake rather unappealing because of
their vulgarity. i.e., I don't think that's what makes them rock. King
Crimson is seldom crass and they kick some serious butt. But then, maybe you're
right . . . to fulfill a contract with a Christian label would require some
focus on subject matter and that might stifle creativity.
--the drum that speaksJDAVIS@WIDENER.BITNET (02/05/90)
I didn't mean to imply that V}vulgarity makes a band successful. It's just th
atthey aren't held to the same standards which makes it a whole lot easier for
them to produce without tarnishing their reputation. I don't listen to these
bands for the vulgarity I listen to them for the sound. I love to listen to
Eddie Van Halen or Steven Vai or perhaps Dave Murray (Iron Maiden) do guitar
work on albums and in concert. Yes, I could do without vulgarity and I could
also do without bands writing songs dealing with political issues that they
can't do a damned thing about! A song should be written from the heart not he
newspaper. I'm going to step down off of my soapbox now. <grin>
JimDERLECT@CLEMSON.BITNET (NIX, LARRY 882-2669) (02/06/90)
I dunno, to me it has always seemed that if you put the word
'christian' onto the word 'Rock' (as in ROCK AND ROLL) it is
same as sloshing a bucket of water onto a bold paint
water color. You get no lines and runny pastells.
DerlectUCSDLA@UWPLATT.EDU (Sharayah..there's penguin in my igloo) (02/06/90)
I don't know ablout "rock" but for christian pop there are some pretty good artists. I am partial to Amy Grant, Micheal W Smith, and Cris Eaton. I know that the discussion is about rock and that it doesn't "rock" like "normal" "rock" but you also have to keap in mind that the aretists are trying to get a very spacial message across one that isnt partial or common to the medium. sharayah
SEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/06/90)
You know, Jim, I think you're onto something with that "heart not the newspaper"
bit. Perhaps quote unquote Christian bands do feel "held to" their style
because they voluntarily assign the term Christian to themselves (whoa--getting
philosophical here . . .), whereas Christian musicians in the commercial world
(as opposed to Christian labels) would be more likely to write from the heart.
Or, for that matter, nonchristian musicians. (poor grammar, I know)
When I said that bit about vulgarity what I meant was that for me it
ruins the song--I do not get morally outraged or anything, I just find it
irrelivant to the purposes for which I listen to the album, dig?
Thanx for the commentary.
--TDSEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/06/90)
Sharayah--
Good point about the message. I would think that if the music was better,
(no, I mean more prominent, I think. Not better.) the music would appeal to a
wider audience, you know? But I guess that would be a trade-off and a decision
to be made by the individual band. From what I have heard, Amy Grant is cool,
although the music is not my personal style.
--tdU6183@WVNVM.BITNET (Mike Karolchik) (02/06/90)
One of my all-time favorite bands went Christian for a while, and they could really rock. Yes, I'm talking about Kansas. Check out the "Vinyl Confessions" album for a good example of this phase in the band's career. Kansas didn't get hard-core about the religion element, but Kerry Livgren (pretty much the group's leader and major songwriter) did some solo works that were much more pointed to religion. Livgren's "Seeds of Change" album is really great, and it rocks as much as most of the Kansas albums. There are a few cuts where Ronnie James Dio (heard of him?) does the vocals. I would really like to know details about what happened to Kansas and Livgren, by the way, if anybody knows about them. I saw the "new" Kansas on their recent "Spirit of Things" tour, and they were quite good (with Steve Walsh back on vocals and keyboards, and ex-Dregs guitarist Steve Morse pounding out the riffs). -Karolchik
GAVIN@HNYMPI52.BITNET (Gavin Burnage) (02/06/90)
I tend to agree that so-called "Christian Rock" rarely seems to be genuinely exciting music. But then, maybe I think that because I so rarely go out of my way to listen to it. On the other hand, as has been said, Christian musicians/singers already established as such can produce great music with a Christian theme. eg Aretha Franklin. eg also Van Morrison, who put a couple of great religious tracks on his latest album (the one with Cliff Richard made the British charts over Christmas). Gavin.
FPRIEST@CLEMSON.BITNET (02/06/90)
In my humble opinion, (no annoying acronyms here...)
God is not something to be worshipped amid heavy bass
chords or screaming guitars....Organs are fine...
What happened to organs??
a
OverseerUCSDLA@UWPLATT.EDU (Sharayah..there's penguin in my igloo) (02/06/90)
--td what kind and mucicians of christian rock do oyu listen to? There are not many that I know of outside of my personal liking. Is there any christian rock that you think is good? I don't personally loke stryper. sharayah
ST402711@BROWNVM.BITNET (Tim Johnson) (02/06/90)
> What happened to organs?? > Overseer Mine is fine...though I'm not in a position to make a statement about yours. Still, isn't that sort of a personal question? -Tim
UUCJEFF@ECNCDC.BITNET (jeff beer) (02/06/90)
> >In my humble opinion, (no annoying acronyms here...) > > God is not something to be worshipped amid heavy bass > chords or screaming guitars....Organs are fine... > What happened to organs?? > a > Overseer oh-oh. get out your fire suites, I smell a flame war. In my opinion, God can only be worship using Ju-Ju inspired drums and screaming tenor saxophones ( have you heard about Trane, John Coltrane) Jeff Beer
ACS_HAHR@UWRF.BITNET (02/06/90)
How do you define Christian rock. Rock bands that sing Christian songs
or Christian bands that sing rock songs?
- The EdsterDCODESP@CLEMSON.BITNET (Dan Codespoti Minstrel) (02/06/90)
Hey Listowner Guy-
I saw Kansas too, man...they were great....I didn''t like Night Ranger at all
tho....as far as what they are doing, they''ve been pretty quiet....All I''ve
been able to find out is that they were touring to support the new (Now older)
album "In the Spirit of Things"....If you find out more, let me know.....
Minstrel.UCSDLA@UWPLATT.EDU (Sharayah..there's penguin in my igloo) (02/07/90)
overseer who says that you need organs to worship god? You can use anything you want musically from bass drums guitars cannons car engine anything you want God will get the message. sharayah
SEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/07/90)
Karolchik-- I have a cassete tape by a band called AD and from what I know, they do have somebody (ies?) from Kansas involved in them. I listened to the first track, got bored, went out to a movie, and somehow never got back to listening to it. I'll check it out and tell you what it sounds like, if you want. --the talking drum
SEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/07/90)
Jeff--that was a very odd letter. Please clarify. Ju-Ju inspired drums? --talking Drum
SEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/07/90)
Edster-- ummm . . . . (I'm tempted to leave it at that . . .) Okay, Rock bands who specifically write music to carry the message of Christianity to a new audience. Secondarily to entertain Christians who like rock but not secularity. Tertiarily to give me something to babble about. --the Talkng Drm
HALLRL@MOREKYPR.BITNET (02/07/90)
I may get blasted for this one, but who cares right! Prince puts out some
hot christian music, some of his songs are really vulgar but some are very
christian oriented you must admit. Seems almost like contradiction of human
nature, or maybe he just does a better job at balancing the two, you know that
yin and yang trip right?
Rando
'God must be a boogey man' so true Joni!FPRIEST@CLEMSON.BITNET (02/07/90)
Apologies....
Jeff,
I only meant that hard rock isn't exactly the kind of music genre that
is appropriate for the Sacred.......
OverseerUUCJEFF@ECNCDC.BITNET (jeff beer) (02/07/90)
> >Jeff--that was a very odd letter. Please clarify. Ju-Ju inspired drums? >--talking Drum Try King Sunny Ade. ( I knew of him when he was just a Prince!) The Haitian drummers ( see the Maya Deren film "The Divine Horseman") The Brazilian carnaval drummers (see the film "Black Orpheus") "A drum is a woman" Duke Ellington ( "Do you know what it does to you" "It does exactly what its supposed to do" ) Good God, you call yourself the "talking drum", check out some bands that actually use one. see you later... jb
DERLECT@CLEMSON.BITNET (NIX, LARRY 882-2669) (02/08/90)
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.
Well, i never did say anything about Christian Musicians. That would bethe
down right crass and untrue. Musicians who crank, crank, reguardless there
of their religious denomination or what have you. All I was saying was t from
that the genre was flacid, no energy. Distinction:
Christian rock / Christian Musicians
-they are not necessarily one in the same...
DerlectDERLECT@CLEMSON.BITNET (NIX, LARRY 882-2669) (02/08/90)
God(s) may be worshipped in any way. It is entirely
dependant on the desciple and the religion.
What if the 'joyous noise' is a bass, drums and guitar
ok? played at high speed or at low or whatever...
DerlectR1SE@SDSUMUS.BITNET (Dave) (02/08/90)
> What happened to organs?? > Overseer Synthesizers happened to organs. Easier to carry (from experience), more versatile, more, more...etc...etc... also less human Domino dave r1se@sdsumus.bitnet t9aa@sdsumus.bitnet "Let's exchange the experience..."
R1SE@SDSUMUS.BITNET (Dave) (02/08/90)
In my drunken opinion, God can be found in the bottom of a beer bottle, in a screaming guitar, in an african drum and a tenor sax, in a blues harp, in a computer... basically, God can be found anywhere (although I feel he makes himself scarce around churches...) _______/||Domino dave r1se@sdsumus.bitnet
ACS_HAHR@UWRF.BITNET (02/08/90)
Talking Drum:
Thanks. The reason I ask is that way back in my youth I
procured Ozzy Osbourne - Blizzard Of Ozz and my parents had a fit
and said "How can you listen to that evil music!?" Naturally, I
took offense and went about hunting down the lyrics. Not only did
I find out that the lyrics where moral, ethical, and highly christian
but I found out Ozzy was trying to become a Catholic preist. I was
just wondering if ya all consider Ozzy Osbourne Christian music
because in all truth it is.
Shocked me too
EdsterSEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/08/90)
Rando--What has prince released that was "Christian"? Just curious. Each person does have their own balance (yin&yang etc.) but they aren't necesarily in the same place. For instance music that I consider vulgar someone else might consider tame (but I doubt it). Also, when a person takes a dichotemal view like that, how seriously can you take them--forinstance, if a band put out a song about how gun control is divinely inspired and is the ultimate panacea for the earth and then wrote a song about machine-gunning six year olds with an Uzi, you wouldn't take them too seriously, right? Granted, the example is really extreme, but do you get my meaning? --the (perhaps babbling) drum
SEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/09/90)
Edster . . . My parents went on a fanatical search through all of my music
lyrics, too and found absolutely nothing and now trust me implicitly as to what
I listen to. Not that there's much they could do now anyway . . . but I am now
more concerned about the lyrics, etc. than they are. :)
Ozzy is wierd. I hear so many different things about him that I don't
know what to think. One of my friends was big on Ozzy and now resides in jail.
But then again, I doubt that Ozzy had anything to do with that at all.
A catholic priest? Hmmm. . .
--the talking drumGWO101@URIACC.BITNET (Michael Lehnertz (Drummer)) (02/09/90)
I heard the new Midnight Oil tune. Sounds like Midnight Oil to me.
- Drummer -R1SE@SDSUMUS.BITNET (Dave) (02/09/90)
I cannot quote you line and verse, but I know that there's a lot of stuff off of _Around the world in a day_ that I would call christian, or at least spiritual. The contradiction between his "Porn songs" and his "Holy songs" is not the same as the contradiction between, to use your example, a gun control songs and a pro uzi-toting song. I'd go into more detail, but I'm instructing a friend in the joys of the mailer. dave r1se@sdsumus.bitnet
ACS_HAHR@UWRF.BITNET (02/09/90)
The Ladder - Prince
God - Prince
Just to name a few...
- The EdsterUCSDLA@UWPLATT.EDU (Sharayah..there's penguin in my igloo) (02/28/90)
Hey! A fellow christian rock listner. Well actually I listen to more christian pop than rock but i have heard the bands that you (Danny) listed. The groups that I listen too most often are : Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, Chris Eaton, etc. sharayah (thatr is where my name comes from)
SEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (02/28/90)
God can be manic as well as mellow. The feelings Christians feel are intense enough to be suited to Rock. Why doesn't this happen more often? --talking drum
DANNY@UTKVX.BITNET (Dan 'THE MAN) (02/28/90)
Overseer, I respect your opinion about Christian Rock, but it is only an opinion. You nor I can change peoples mind about their opinions on things(such as christian Rock). Personally, I believe that Rock is the Best music in the world. Also, I believe that Jesus Christ is #1. Therefore, why can't Jesus, who is the best, have the best? God loves us all no matter what we listen too, or the actions we take. He has simply given us a choice and with those choices we have opinions. I disagree in a sense the Rock is for(what is it that you said) drooling, headbanging, etc. people. I listen to Christian Rock and really get into worshiping my God and Savior because I know who he is and what He stands for. I admit to listing to secular music because I like it too. But, I know where I stand with God. I hope I have not offended you. Danny
UCSDLA@UWPLATT.EDU (Sharayah..there's penguin in my igloo) (02/28/90)
Over.. you are just stateing the obvious of why there are many types of music!! because every body likes something different. Its what makes us human. dont put something down just because you personally dont like it, that is a sign of stupidity and also the roots of racism. sharayah(do i here an echo??)
T9AA@SDSUMUS.BITNET (Dave Jacoby) (02/28/90)
Ok, overseer, even assuming your point (for purpose of argument), I will still not like stryper because they do *NOT* ROCK!!! This and nothing else shall be the basis for your rock&roll choices. Mice Elf dave t9aa@sdsumus.bitnet
97393689@WSUVM1.BITNET (Ken Bogle) (02/28/90)
Let me just say that while I feel you are free to listen to whatever trips y
your trigger, the way that Christian Rock is sometimes promoted really bothers
me. First, somebody tells us that Rock and Roll is Satan's work, and that it d
estroys innocent young lives, etc. etc. and so on. Then they tell us that ther
e is Christian Rock, and that it is OK because it is "Christian".
Allow me a few observations:
1) People who buy "Christian Rock" are usually faithful buyers, who buy ma
ss of this stuff. Even if an album by a Christian band sucks, it is likely not
going to be criticized too heavily, because in a way, this is like criticizing
God.
2) Clergy, and some churches insist that Rock n Roll is harmful and dange
rous. Meanwhile, Christian Rock is wholesome and OK.
I hope I don't need to tell you that this is a marketer's dream. I am su
re that you would also agree that the competition amongst Christian Bands is a
lot less intense than in secular rock.
So, while I have no problem with and enjoy some christian rock, I am not
willing to say that I like it soley on the basis of it's "moral worth". My big
gest problem with it is the possibility that second-rate musicians may be decla
ring themselves Christians, and preying upon a sypathetic listening public. I
am NOT saying that is happening yet, but the potential certainly exists.
Ken Bogle 97393689@WSUVM1.BITNETSEG92@GENESEO.BITNET (the Talking Drum) (03/01/90)
It is important to remember when you say that "Some people say that Rock
is Satan's work" that you are only talking about some people. I really don't
think that most churches think that Rock is "harmful and dangerous" (for
example one of my ministers once gave a sermon that was in part about Jimi
Hendrix "genius wasted because of drugs" sorta deal) and the churches that
think Rock is "harmful and dangerous" by and large also don't like Christian
Rock.
I kind of doubt a band could take advantage of the system to "prey (no pun
intended, I should hope) on a captive audience . . . if they were just in it
for the bucks (what little there are) it would all be pretty transparent, and
they probably wouldn't get the contracts.
--the Talking Drum