[bit.listserv.notis-l] Dinosaur Programming

RWWMAINT@MSU.BITNET (Rich Wiggins) (02/03/90)

This is a busy mailing list, so perhaps it's not wise to add to this
line of discussion about how to train programmers, but:

-- Universities aren't trade schools.  They should teach computer
science, not particular specialized operating environments.)

-- Many universities have non-IBM mainframes for academic use.  (IBM
has made inroads the last few years.)  You can learn mainframe computing
without learning IBM data processing, and still be near ground zero
stepping into a blue shop.

-- IBM 370 mainframes are the overwhelming choice for large data processing
shops.  That will probably remain true for years.  Microcomputers, LANs, &
Unix are gaining fast.  I wouldn't want to see a generation of CICS-savvy
grads who won't migrate to the successor to the dinosaur.

-- Whatever we say here, it seems that there are two choices: Train people
from within, or be prepared to compete with large shops to hire specific
skills.

(Personal opinions only...)

FCLA@NERVM.BITNET (Mark Hinnebusch, FCLA) (02/03/90)

Bill Turner raises an issue that has had me steaming for years now.
That is the anti-mainframe, anti-IBM bias of academic computing and
Computer Science departments that has become pervasive in the 80's.  I
personally think that it is because many academics are now products of
the same environment and couldn't program in a production mainframe
environment without a complete shift in orientation and a total
retraining equivalent to that necessary for their products (recent
grads).  The whys and wherefores could fill volumes.  The problem
extends far beyond NOTIS and libraries.  It pervades the industry.  Most
companies have vigorous training programs to overcome the lack of
pragmatic training given in the universities.  At FCLA, we hire almost
all new graduates and train them.  We have the staff to do that but
I realise that most other NOTIS shops do not.

Now, a suggested solution.  If every mainframe-oriented programming
operation in every university were to make a committment of time and
effort to agitate to be a teaching resource, preferably by offering
staff to teach in an adjunct position, but acceptably by offering
internships, senior projects, etc., then we could perhaps make some
inroads.  I realise that this is not the stated mission of our
operations but it would have real long-term benefits in that you create
people to take positions in your organisation upon graduation.  You also
give (especially if you teach) a larger audience a view of a world that
they have been denied access to.

By the way, when I was an undergraduate at Ohio State back in 1970, the
Instructional and Research Computer Center and the Department of
Computer and Information Science had an adjunct program. Some
of the best classes that I took were taught by IRCC staff.

As always, i am long-winded.

Mark Hinnebusch
Assistant Director for Computing Services
Florida Center for Library Automation
Suite 320
2002 N.W. 13th Street
Gainesville, Florida  32609
voice: (904) 392-9020
fax:   (904) 392-9185
BITNET: FCLA@NERVM (CMS) or FCLMTH@NERVM (CMS) or @45vw27@NER (TSO)
Internet: FCLA@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU or FCLA@NERVM.BITNET, etc.