[net.space] DOD anti-capitalist?

space@mit-mc (02/18/85)

From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS

Thoughts on "Classification Dispute Stalls NOAA Program", Science 2/8/85,
pg 612-613

Now that the US has claimed a 200 mile economic zone, it would seem to make
perfect sense to send in the surveyors and map an acquisition of land
unheralded since the purchase of Alaska. Once the cartographers have cleared
the way, we send out the new 49'ers and begin tapping the enourmous wealth
of the nearly untapped continental slope, just as one day we will map the
lunar surface in fine detail for the prospectors.

And NOAA, taking it's charter to heart was prepared to map the new territory
using the Sea Beam and the satellites of the Global Positioning System to
gain highly detailed mapping information.

However, the DOD in its infinite wisdom, wants to classify any mapping that
NOAA does.  Since classification will effectively halt the major economic
use of this zone, it makes one wonder of DOD has forgotten what economic
system they are supposed to be defending.

DOD gave their half baked and rather lame excuse (Soviet submarines could
figure out where to hide).  This strikes me as being nearly as ludicrous as
the explanations given for the shuttle launch time security.  I suspect the
real reason may be one of the following:

	- we have underwater caches of fuel, weapons, supplies, atomics, for
	  wartime resupply of submarines, and possibly through the
	  submarines of surface vessals.

	- we have carried the Sealab technology furthur and have underwater
	  listening posts or bases that are manned.

	- we have unmanned underwater listening posts or other elint or
	  C-cubed facilities that might show up in detailed mapping

	- we have built an undersea neutrino detector large enough to give
	  militarily useful resolution so that can follow nuclear powered
	  vessels anywhere on earth. I'm not sure about warheads, but I do
	  know that operating reactors give off a nuetrino flux, albeit
	  a not terribly powerful one. There was even discussion of building
	  a large detector in the waters off of Hawaii. Detectors are based
	  on recording scintillations in the dark waters using sensitive
	  photo detectors.

If anyone wonders why I have brought this up in Space Digest, it has to do
with the fear that these morons may try to pull the same type of
shenaninigans on us when we attempt to exploit the resources of the solar
system.  As those who have followed my ravings before know, I am NOT anti
defense, or even anti-SDI.  However I have a strong desire to make sure the
military of our country is kept under control and gets slapped down every
once in awhile with the reminder that this is a DEMOCRACY, with a
CONSTITUTION, and it runs under a CAPITALIST economic system, and that the
people who make up the nation are independent, undisciplined and (god
forbid) UNMILITARY individualists.

And for those who do not believe this will happen in space, I remind you
that the DOD has used similar unconvincing arguments to prevent the creation
of 10m resolution orbital remote sensing, is internally and privately
undercutting the concept of shuttle commercialization, and was most
unhelpful in getting a multinational space station built, yet was unwilling
to assist the lobbying to create an all-american SCIENTIFIC and COMMERCIAL
space station.

By the way, I might add that to my (admittedly peripheral) knowledge it is
not the people in the SDI office who are causing the trouble!!

The whole point is, I think any of you out there who are in a position to do
so should raise one holy hell of a stink about this travesty.  I remind you
of a few mottos of our ancestors: "Live Free or Die" (New Hampshire state
motto), "Don't Tread on Me" (California state motto).  Help keep our War
Department American!!

doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (02/19/85)

> However, the DOD in its infinite wisdom, wants to classify any mapping that
> NOAA does....
> DOD gave their half baked and rather lame excuse (Soviet submarines could
> figure out where to hide).

Another type of "classified data":  the coverage of the U.S. Air Traffic
Control RADAR.  Although it would seem to make a lot of sense to let
instrument pilots know, ahead of time, where they can expect to be out
of RADAR contact, that information is classified.

Now in the eastern U.S. there is essentially total RADAR coverage of
all instrument flight routes.  But not in the mountainous West.  You
ought'a see the look on the face of an out-of-state pilot flying V-105
from PRC to BLD when the air traffic controller routinely intones
"Cessna Five Two Whiskey, RADAR contact lost, resume normal position
reporting, request your estimate to Peach Springs."

Many instrument pilots have *never* had to give a normal position report
before.  They don't have an estimate ready, they've forgotten what the
chart symbols for "mandatory" and "on-request" reporting points are, and
they've even forgotten the format of a "normal" position report.

But at least the Ruskies don't know about the holes in the ATC RADAR
coverage (oh, no!  I just told them about one!)
-- 
Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{hao,ihnp4,decvax}!noao!terak!doug

ems@amdahl.UUCP (E. Michael Smith) (02/19/85)

> From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
> 
> Thoughts on "Classification Dispute Stalls NOAA Program", Science 2/8/85,
> pg 612-613
> 
> However, the DOD in its infinite wisdom, wants to classify any mapping that
> NOAA does.  Since classification will effectively halt the major economic
> use of this zone, it makes one wonder of DOD has forgotten what economic
> system they are supposed to be defending.
>
They have never played Hamurabi or Empire and don't yet understand that
the way to win the game is to economically out produce your competition.

> DOD gave their half baked and rather lame excuse (Soviet submarines could
> figure out where to hide).  This strikes me as being nearly as ludicrous as
> the explanations given for the shuttle launch time security.  I suspect the
> real reason may be one of the following:
>
--- long list of far fetched rather lame reasons ommitted ---

It is unlikely that there is any good reason.  The dod has a long
history of 'when in doubt classify new knowledge'.  They  seem to be
as afraid of knowledge as the Russians.  They just haven't learned yet
that we will gain more advantage by the free exploitation of knowledge
to our economic advantage than we will loose by having it known to
the USSR.  Remember that 'crypt' is not distributed outside the USA
because of the bureacratic problem of licencing; not due to some
sinister dod plot.  Not to prevent anyone from having it.

> ...                         However I have a strong desire to make sure the
> military of our country is kept under control and gets slapped down every
> once in awhile with the reminder that this is a DEMOCRACY, with a
> CONSTITUTION, and it runs under a CAPITALIST economic system, and that the
> people who make up the nation are independent, undisciplined and (god
> forbid) UNMILITARY individualists.

We have a Representative Democracy, not a Direct Domocracy; the DOD is
doing what our representatives have told it to do...

The constitution has been interpreted till it doesn't mean much any more...

And our economy is not a true Capitalist system, but is rather what is
called a Mixed Economy; with features of both capitalism and Socialism
freely intermingled.

Most of the people in the US do not fit the catagory 'individualist'. I
wish that this were not so.  Yes, the DOD will classify and stiffle the
civilian space effort.  This will be largely the result of bureaucratic
bumbling and the tendency to try to hide *EVERYTHING* from the Russians.

I doubt if we can change that.  I hope there is enough leakage in the
system to get the job of commercialization of space done.


E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

Comedo ergo sum

The opinions expressed by me are not representative of those of any
other person - natural, unnatural, or fictional - and only marginally
reflect my opinions as strained by the language.

space@mit-mc (02/22/85)

From: <dual!qantel!hplabs!ames!al>

BRAVO!!!