[net.space] Telescopes

space@mit-mc (02/18/85)

From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS

Why hasn't anybody considered building an all electronic telescope?  Why
even bother with a mirror?  A large flat plate of CCD must certainly be
cheaper than the expensive optics and aligning techniques now being used.

I cannot think of a good reason why it wouldn't work, and I'm curious if
anyone out there can see a problem.

For those to whom the idea is not immediately obvious, the main mirror would
be replaced with a flat plate of photomultipliers impinging on CCD.  About
3-4 years ago Scientific American ran an article on some of the new
technology for making the zone plates better and cheaper.

With this approach we can count photons and arrival times immediately.  The
scope would consist of nothing but a tube to prevent extraneous light from
getting in, the 'objective' plate and a computer with humungously high speed
and enormously large storage capabilities.

The only thing I'm not sure of is how to get a good spectral resolution.
What is really desired is a vector of length 4 identifying each impinging
photon over a useful delta-f with <x,y,t,f>

Even with the above computing requirements, it MUST be cheaper than forming
a few tons of glass to within a 1/4 wavelength of a complex 3-d figuring
curve!!!

If anyone decides to build one, please name it after me, or at least send me
the check for the difference between the electronics and the optics...

ethan@utastro.UUCP (Ethan Vishniac) (02/18/85)

> From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
> 
> Why hasn't anybody considered building an all electronic telescope?  Why
> even bother with a mirror?  A large flat plate of CCD must certainly be
> cheaper than the expensive optics and aligning techniques now being used.
> 
> For those to whom the idea is not immediately obvious, the main mirror would
> be replaced with a flat plate of photomultipliers impinging on CCD.  About
> 3-4 years ago Scientific American ran an article on some of the new
> technology for making the zone plates better and cheaper.
> 
> With this approach we can count photons and arrival times immediately.  The
> scope would consist of nothing but a tube to prevent extraneous light from
> getting in, the 'objective' plate and a computer with humungously high speed
> and enormously large storage capabilities.
> 
> The only thing I'm not sure of is how to get a good spectral resolution.
> What is really desired is a vector of length 4 identifying each impinging
> photon over a useful delta-f with <x,y,t,f>
> 
> Even with the above computing requirements, it MUST be cheaper than forming
> a few tons of glass to within a 1/4 wavelength of a complex 3-d figuring
> curve!!!
> 

*** REPLACE THIS TELESCOPE WITH YOUR CCD ***

Hmm........   As a theorist I'm probably not the person to answer this, but
here goes...
 
   The problem is not obtaining reasonably spectral resolution, that can be
done with filters if necessary.  The problem is that the scheme as presented
here has no means of distinguishing between photons coming from slightly
different directions.  It has no *angular* resolution.  This is the whole
point of the optics, to create an image, to separate out photons according
to their wavevectors.  A CCD will simply record whether or not a photon
has struck its surface.  In order to make a telescope like this work one
would have to restrict its field of view to the angular resolution desired,
i.e. less than an arc second.  Note that I haven't mentioned (yet) the 
difficulty involved in covering an area comparable to a large telescope mirror
with a coherent CCD array.

"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan
                               Department of Astronomy
                               University of Texas
                               Austin, Texas 78712

*Anyone who wants to claim these opinions is welcome to them*

space@mit-mc (02/19/85)

From: dual!ihnp4!iheds!hon

I don't believe you would get any magnification with your
single flat plat.  When you record the photons with the CCD
you lose the phase information.  The mirror preserves the
phase and allows the magnified image from  correlated
photons to be cast at the focus where it can then be
causght by a CC.


			Herb Norton
			Bell Labs

space@mit-mc (02/23/85)

From: <dual!qantel!hplabs!tektronix!carlc>

I don't buy your electronic telescope scheme.  A mirror "knows"
more than just the position (x,y,z) of a light ray impinging on it,
it knows the *direction* as well.  Without direction information, how
do you know where in the sky a ray came from?  In other words,
how does your scheme *focus* the light?
--Carl