chris@ISM780.UUCP (03/02/85)
I've been wondering about how much mass would be needed to get a small colony started on the moon. I'm assuming that the colony would be 4 to 8 people living on the moon for a couple of years. There would be flights from earth, but they would not (because of cost) be able to bring each and every item that was needed. What i suspect they would bring is complicated manufactured items (like chips, carbon mono-filament, carbide tipped machine tool bits) that would be too difficult to manufacture on the moon. It seems like one of the first orders of business would be to start some type of farm, because food is high bulk, and people need a lot of it every day. Water and oxygen would be broken out of the rocks, and metals smelted using solar mirrors. Living arrangements would almost certainly have to be underground to provide cheap protection against sunlight, radiation, micrometeorites and big tempreture changes. One housing technique might be to dig a hole, put in a big ballon, and cover it with foam in place plastic to provide a rigid shell. This would then be covered with lunar soil as an insulator. Here is the list of stuff (by no means comprehensive) that looks necessary: a lathe Food for ~1 year plastic monomers solar mirror pieces (don't have to be very good) plastic tents digging equipment (vacuum version of small cat) water fertilizers, seeds, farming tools electronic repair kit medical equipment and drugs explosives wire, lights, general electrical contractors stuff air renewer (and spares) pressure suits This is looking like quite a bit of mass. How do we get it into orbit, and how do we get it down to the lunar surface? chris kostanick decvax!vortex!ism780!chris
peterb@pbear.UUCP (03/04/85)
One Idea I think somebody must have kicked around is to design a rocket ship to land in as big a piece as possible(aka most mass) and then canniblize it to make your tools and get your raw sources. If one took time when designing this rocket, one could also design parts of tooling machinery INTO the rocket, so when you dismantle the rocket, voila! You have your parts to build a CAT bulldozer, lathe, etc. Still it is a lot of mass to cart around, but If you're gonna do it, go all the way, and then rip up your bridge behind you to build the one in front of you.... Peter Barada ima!pbear!peterb
ems@amdahl.UUCP (ems) (03/05/85)
> > It seems like one of the first orders of business would be > to start some type of farm, because food is high bulk, and people > need a lot of it every day. Water and oxygen would be broken out > of the rocks, and metals smelted using solar mirrors. > > a lathe Food for ~1 year > plastic monomers solar mirror pieces (don't have to be very good) > plastic tents digging equipment (vacuum version of small cat) > water fertilizers, seeds, farming tools > electronic repair kit medical equipment and drugs > explosives wire, lights, general electrical contractors stuff > air renewer (and spares) pressure suits > The first order of business is housing, second is air, third is water, fourth is food. Somewhat in parallel with these comes the need for various tools. As a decendant of blacksmiths I have learned the traditions of tool making. Forget draging the farmtools and small hand tools up with you (after the first batch - and even they are optional). A good smith given reasonable ore and smelting facilities can make an astounding number of tools. Drill bits are among the easier things to make. A lathe would be hard, but given time ... (you see, first you make the anvil, hammer and tongs, then the files, bits, punches and chisles. Next come the pliers...) (I can see it now: 'Neath the spreading antennae tree, the village smithy ... ' Image of burly man sweating in space suite, pull back to show craters and solar forge...) Also, explosives can be made from plant and animal products. Look into the technology of back-to-the-earth homesteads and survivalists for some creative solutions. Mostly what you need is a way to make water, air, and soil (the hard part. there is a lot of stuff in soil.) rand keep it from going away while you let controlled amounts of sunlight in. The rest depends on the kind of lifestyle you want. It could range from early agricultural (add seeds) on up to hightech (add hightech list of medicines and electronics). E. Michael Smith ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems Computo ergo sum The opinions expressed by me are not representative of those of any other person - natural, unnatural, or fictional - and only marginally reflect my opinions as strained by the language.
al@ames.UUCP (Al Globus) (03/13/85)
> Forget draging the farmtools and small hand tools up with you > (after the first batch - and even they are optional). A good > smith given reasonable ore and smelting facilities can make > an astounding number of tools. And, I imagin, produce an astounding amount of atmospheric pollution. Since the available atmosphere is very small, you cannot disperse things into it. EVERY byproduct of your processes must be dealt with. The basic idea is very good though. Bring tools that make tools. There was a study some time ago that identified a few dozen tools that could be used to make almost any other industrial or agricultural tool. Unfortunately, I can't remember where the study came from. I think the California Space Institute had something to do with it.
ems@amdahl.UUCP (ems) (03/16/85)
> > Forget draging the farmtools and small hand tools up with you > > (after the first batch - and even they are optional). A good > > smith given reasonable ore and smelting facilities can make > > an astounding number of tools. > > And, I imagin, produce an astounding amount of atmospheric pollution. > Since the available atmosphere is very small, you cannot disperse > things into it. EVERY byproduct of your processes must be dealt > with. The part about the smith in the space suit was humor. I would expect that the actual work would be done inside. Yes, it would be a closed system. There will be garbage to deal with. Don't see how that changes things. The process of reducing ore has traditionally used carbon for this. To waste scarce carbon by dumping it into the 'air' would be plain stupid. This brings up an interesting point though: what reducing agents are found in the lunar environment? > The basic idea is very good though. Bring tools that make > tools. There was a study some time ago that identified a few dozen > tools that could be used to make almost any other industrial or agricultural > tool. Unfortunately, I can't remember where the study came from. I > think the California Space Institute had something to do with it. A few dozen? My god, that would be luxury! I have a book on smithing that shows how to start with *NONE*. Start by making a few bricks by hand. These are cured in a fire made by hand. They are used to make a *VERY* crude furnace. With this you smelt some ore to get pig iron. The iron is drained from the furnace into rough moulds dug in the dirt (either by hand or with a stick or a rock). These first lumps of iron are moulded as a flat lump for use as an anvil and a squarish lump with a hole in the middle for a hammer. Aditional iron is used for making pigs. With the bootstrap anvil and hammer you make crude tools for building a forge, billows, real anvil and real hammer. The first of these is the tongs. They hold the work piece while you use the hammer on it. Next is a cutting tool or two. (like chisles) With these you cut a file blank. Harden it. Then your ready to do a better anvil and hammer. Then some more tools and a better forge. etc. Bootstraping is never easy, but it can be done! Required are dirt and clay, fuel (heat source), ore and reducing agent (traditionally wood), water (for quenching and hardening), and wood & leather for a billows (Though I would expect that with solar heat the billows would be optional :-) I would also expect that starting with a couple of good power tools, a solar smelter kit, a real hammer and anvil, and a few decent hand tools would get you a few years ahead of the game real quick! -- E. Michael Smith ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems Comedo ergo dorum This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.
space@mit-mc (03/18/85)
From: Rick McGeer (on an z29-e) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley> > > Forget draging the farmtools and small hand tools up with you > > (after the first batch - and even they are optional). A good > > smith given reasonable ore and smelting facilities can make > > an astounding number of tools. > > And, I imagin, produce an astounding amount of atmospheric pollution. > Since the available atmosphere is very small, you cannot disperse > things into it. EVERY byproduct of your processes must be dealt > with. Forgive me, but I don't understand. How on earth can you have air pollution when you don't have air? In this case, the byproducts of smelting wouldn't be precipitate suspended in a fluid (= air pollution), but rather would settle to the ground as a dust. Rick.