dwallach@riki.berkeley.edu (Dan Wallach) (03/19/90)
I'm about to buy an Amiga, while the educational discounts remain.
I believe I want to buy in components, while I can - I don't need
the AT Bridgeboard and end up saving $600 or so. The question:
I know I want a monitor that will work with ECS, but it has to
work with the existing hardware. The Sony's seem very nice, but I know
very little about hooking them to the Amiga. Will the 1302/1304 work
with an unmodified Amiga analog-RGB output?
The salesman was extremely vague about the 2630 vs. the GVP board.
He was saying how awesome the 2630 was and how "everbody else is
just playing catch-up" with Commodore's wonderful product. What's true?
If I get an A2500/30, how much 32-bit memory can I add, and how fast?
Does the 2630 take standard SIMM's? Does a GVP 030 board run faster
than a 2630 board? How easy will it be to put a faster 68030 on-
board, when they become more cheaply available?
In summary, what's the nicest, most elegant way for me to have a 68030/68882
Amiga with lots of memory, and compatibility with 1.4 and other future stuff?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Wallach Phone: ____ _____
dwallach@riki.berkeley.edu 415-643-1020 / / / /
"Everything you do today will be wrong." / /----/ /
-- Douglas Adams /____ / / /____es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/20/90)
In article <23211@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> dwallach@riki.berkeley.edu (Dan Wallach) writes: >I know I want a monitor that will work with ECS, but it has to >work with the existing hardware. The Sony's seem very nice, but I know >very little about hooking them to the Amiga. Will the 1302/1304 work >with an unmodified Amiga analog-RGB output? Commodore is coming out with a bisync monitor and it will be in the educational program. When it will be out, I don't know. It shouldn't be long I don't think, but that's just a guess. BTW, you have till the end of June to buy on discount. > >The salesman was extremely vague about the 2630 vs. the GVP board. >He was saying how awesome the 2630 was and how "everbody else is >just playing catch-up" with Commodore's wonderful product. What's true? That's just not true. The GVP boards are faster, and come in 28, 33 and 40MHz versions. The design is much better, but they are also more expensive. GVP does really seem to set the standard for speed, but you get what you pay for. >If I get an A2500/30, how much 32-bit memory can I add, and how fast? >Does the 2630 take standard SIMM's? Does a GVP 030 board run faster The 2500/30 lets you have up to 4MB on board. There is a daughterboard which can add more memory, however, the daughterboard is not yet in production. The GVP lets you have up to 8MB of RAM expansion on board. I believe the CBM card requires you to solder the RAM in. The GVP uses expensive RAM but it can be just snapped in. > >In summary, what's the nicest, most elegant way for me to have a 68030/68882 >Amiga with lots of memory, and compatibility with 1.4 and other future stuff? They both appear to be fully compatible in the future. You can be sure that the Commodore will work with Unix. GVP claims that theirs will too. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Dan Wallach Phone: ____ _____ >dwallach@riki.berkeley.edu 415-643-1020 / / / / >"Everything you do today will be wrong." / /----/ / > -- Douglas Adams /____ / / /____ -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu Compu$erve : 70137,3271 Anyone giving away Amigas or Sharp Scanners??? "If Commodore had to market sushi they'd call it `raw cold fish'" -- The Bandito, inevitably stolen from someone else NewTek says, "if you are waiting for the toaster, get your bread ready." Well, I say my bread is now stale so they'd better be making a microwave!
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (03/20/90)
In article <1990Mar19.180839.21488@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <23211@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> dwallach@riki.berkeley.edu (Dan Wallach) writes: >>The salesman was extremely vague about the 2630 vs. the GVP board. >>He was saying how awesome the 2630 was and how "everbody else is >>just playing catch-up" with Commodore's wonderful product. What's true? > That's just not true. The GVP boards are faster, and come in >28, 33 and 40MHz versions. GVP just (Saturday night) officially announced their 40MHz version. The 28MHz version is using a 25MHz part -- some people think it's OK to do that, others don't. My guess is that it usually works OK. >The design is much better, Better is a relative term. It really depends on what you want. The GVP boards are the first non-Commodore accelerator boards that seem reasonably compatible and reasonably reliable. >but they are also more expensive. GVP does really seem to set the standard for >speed, but you get what you pay for. > The 2500/30 lets you have up to 4MB on board. There is a >daughterboard which can add more memory, however, the daughterboard is >not yet in production. The daughterboard specifications have, however, been released to developers. There may be a choice of daughterboards before long. You can logically address about 64 megabytes on the daughterboard. >The GVP lets you have up to 8MB of RAM expansion on board. Well, not really. The GVP board doesn't allow any memory to be added on-board. The currently do ship a daughterboard (follows their own conventions) which can have either 4 or 8 megabytes of 32 bit memory on it. That memory board is a bit faster than the on-board A2630 memory, but of course the separate board and additional logical complexity (for burst-mode support) makes it more expensive. >>In summary, what's the nicest, most elegant way for me to have a 68030/68882 >>Amiga with lots of memory, and compatibility with 1.4 and other future stuff? > They both appear to be fully compatible in the future. Well, actually, most GVP boards currently out there need a PAL change to work right with 1.4 and some other things. However, GVP has already solved the problem. I would certainly expect them to try and support their customers; they seem to be trying to make their stuff follow the Commodore specifications for things wherever possible. For example, theirs is the only other accelerator board on the market that implements its 68000-space 32 bit memory correctly (autoconfigs and supports DMA). >Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Systems Engineering) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Too much of everything is just enough
eaeu079@orion.oac.uci.edu (Jason Goldberg) (03/20/90)
In article <1990Mar19.180839.21488@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > > That's just not true. The GVP boards are faster, and come in >28, 33 and 40MHz versions. The design is much better, but they are >also more expensive. GVP does really seem to set the standard for >speed, but you get what you pay for. > I have to take exception to the comment that the GVP is better designed than the A2630. I would say both boards are well designed. Yet, they are/were built with different goals in mind. Both are great products and each offers it own pro's and con's yet neither is a poorly designed product as is implied above. While, I like the GVP and it IS faster than a stock A2630 I would have to say that Dave Hayne is a heads and shoulders above anyone at GVP. As the story goes GVP very carefully followed Daves guidelines in designing there product, and anyone at GVP other than their sales-staff have nothing but praise of Dave and anything he builds. I have yet to have anyone tell me what kind of chip is in 28 MHz GVP. If its a Mot. 33 MHz chip why only run it at 28? If its a 25MHz running at 28MHz then don't talk to me about their stuff being well designed... -Jason- -- --------- Jason Goldberg INTERNET: eaeu079@ORION.OAC.UCI.EDU BITNET: eaeu079@UCI.BITNET
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/21/90)
To: eaeu079@orion.oac.uci.edu Subject: Re: New Amiga questions: 2630 vs. GVP/Multisyncs Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware In-Reply-To: <2606039B.1640@orion.oac.uci.edu> References: <25950@ut-emx.UUCP> <191@uncmed.med.unc.edu> <23211@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> <1990Mar19.180839.21488@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Columbia University Cc: Bcc: In article <2606039B.1640@orion.oac.uci.edu> you write: >In article <1990Mar19.180839.21488@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >> >> That's just not true. The GVP boards are faster, and come in >>28, 33 and 40MHz versions. The design is much better, but they are >>also more expensive. GVP does really seem to set the standard for >>speed, but you get what you pay for. >> > >Both are great products and each offers >it own pro's and con's yet neither is a poorly designed product as is implied >above. While, I like the GVP and it IS faster than a stock A2630 I would have >to say that Dave Hayne is a heads and shoulders above anyone at GVP. As the I'm sorry I left that misunderstanding. I did not mean to lower the A2630, just raise the GVP board. The burst-mode RAM, DMA access to on-board RAM and the connection to a hard drive via a 32 bit bus give it technological edges, IMHO. > >I have yet to have anyone tell me what kind of chip is in 28 MHz GVP. If its >a Mot. 33 MHz chip why only run it at 28? If its a 25MHz running at 28MHz >then don't talk to me about their stuff being well designed... > Yes, it is true: the 28MHz board is a 25MHz chip. Even Hazy said that wasn't so bad. Usually the tolerances are quite high. I am sure that GVP would replace the chip if the owner had problems! However, I understand your point that you don't want to take the risk in the first place! >-Jason- > > >-- > >--------- >Jason Goldberg INTERNET: eaeu079@ORION.OAC.UCI.EDU > BITNET: eaeu079@UCI.BITNET -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu Compu$erve : 70137,3271 Anyone giving away Amigas or Sharp Scanners??? "If Commodore had to market sushi they'd call it `raw cold fish'" -- The Bandito, inevitably stolen from someone else NewTek says, "if you are waiting for the toaster, get your bread ready." Well, I say my bread is now stale so they'd better be making a microwave!
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (03/21/90)
In article <1990Mar20.165016.16651@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <2606039B.1640@orion.oac.uci.edu> you write: >>In article <1990Mar19.180839.21488@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>Both are great products and each offers >>it own pro's and con's yet neither is a poorly designed product as is implied >>above. While, I like the GVP and it IS faster than a stock A2630 I would have >>to say that Dave Haynie is a heads and shoulders above anyone at GVP. Well, gee. I certainly won't start an argument here. And I am taller than most of the GVP engineers I've met... > I'm sorry I left that misunderstanding. I did not mean to >lower the A2630, just raise the GVP board. The burst-mode RAM, DMA >access to on-board RAM and the connection to a hard drive via a 32 bit >bus give it technological edges, IMHO. Just a bit of clarification needed here. DMA access to 32 bit RAM (either the A2630's on-board RAM or the GVP's daughterboard RAM) is supported by both cards, probably because of the rules I helped make up that say, if your memory is in the 24 bit address space, it must autoconfigure and be DMA-able. GVP is the only board other than the two Commodore boards, to date, to get this right. Their hard drive interface is indeed on the 68030 bus, but it's only a 16-bit wide imbedded AT style interface. Dirt cheap to implement, but no faster than SCSI. The burst-mode memory is a nice feature, but didn't meet up with the constraints of the A2630, which included support for 2 meg banks (nybble-mode DRAM on a 32 bit bus gives you a minimum 4 meg bank) and on-card memory (you can always build more clever memory systems if you have a whole daughtercard to fit them onto). >>-Jason- >Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Systems Engineering) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Too much of everything is just enough