a143@mindlink.UUCP (Ed Meyer) (06/07/90)
To Randel Jesup, I was looking a some software that runs on a Sun-3 (color) under Unix and uses ... I think it was refered to as ... Openlook or Suntools. I was wondering if this software would have any likelihood in working on an A3000 running Unix (I know it's still in the future -- planning :-) Thanks.
lupe@alanya.Central.Sun.COM (Lupe Christoph - Sun Germany Consulting - Munich) (06/08/90)
a143@mindlink.UUCP (Ed Meyer) writes: >To Randel Jesup, >I was looking a some software that runs on a Sun-3 (color) under Unix and uses >... I think it was refered to as ... Openlook or Suntools. I was wondering if >this software would have any likelihood in working on an A3000 running Unix (I >know it's still in the future -- planning :-) >Thanks. Well, I'm not Randel Jessup, but since I have not seen an answer to this I would like to add some information and a question. Suntools is the very old window system that ran on Sun's until SunOS 2.x (can't remember the number of the last revision). SunOS 3.0 brought SunView. SunView is actually comprised of several things: a window system, a window manager, a toolkit and a set of programs. It's toolkit was much better than the Suntools API (application programming interface). It uses attribute/value pairs as opposed to fixed argument lists. Then came Open Look. Open Look is a GUI (graphical user interface), i.e. a standard on how widgets (buttons, sliders, etc) look hoe they are arranged and how they behave. There is a toolkit and a window manager that implements the Open Look GUI from Sun: XView and olwm. XView, as it's name suggests, runs on top of X11 and implements an API similar to the SunView toolkit. XView and olwm are available as source from MIT as part of X11R4. There are companies that have ported or are porting to platforms other than Sun workstations (I believe hp and DEC are on the list). It is not possible to port SunView to any other platform as the source code is not available, and nobody would want to port it, anyway. So much for the background, now for the question: Anybody porting XView on AmigaOS on top of the X server from GfxBase ? BTW, I believe I heard that Workbench 2.0 implements the Open Look GUI. Is that true ? I have not really compared the few snapshots I've seen to Open Look on Sun's. -- | lchristoph@Sun.COM (Internet) | Disclaimer: | | ...!unido!sunmuc!lupe (German EUNet, "bang") | My employer has a | | lupe@sunmuc.UUCP (German EUNet, domain) | non-exclusive license | | ...!suninfo!lchristoph (Sun Germany customers) | to my opinion. |
a143@mindlink.UUCP (Ed Meyer) (06/08/90)
To Randell Jesup,
thanks for your reply. If there is close enough compliance, then I may want to
chat/fax/message with other groups in CBM since what I'm looking at will
definitely put the Amiga ('020 and higher) into a very nice engineering
workstation market at a reasonable price. I'm not looking at doing it, just
using it and pointing it out. If it doesn't work then, well, that's the way it
goes. Cheers.
PS. If I may use one message to broadcast "thank yous" thanks to yourself for
the superfast reply, and thanks to others such as Lupe Christoph of Sun Germany
Consulting - Munich, for their replies.jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) (06/09/90)
In article <2029@mindlink.UUCP> a143@mindlink.UUCP (Ed Meyer) writes: >To Randel Jesup, >I was looking a some software that runs on a Sun-3 (color) under Unix and uses >... I think it was refered to as ... Openlook or Suntools. I was wondering if >this software would have any likelihood in working on an A3000 running Unix (I >know it's still in the future -- planning :-) Our SysVR4 Unix will support both X and OpenLook (on top of X I think), so it should work. (No Suntools, of course.) I think X works in 4MB, but OpenLook may require more than 4MB ram to work well. THe unix guys could answer more precisely. X and OpenLook are part of the standard SysVR4 package, I think, along with various berkeley-isms and tcpip/etc. -- Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup Common phrase heard at Amiga Devcon '89: "It's in there!"
jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) (06/09/90)
In article <lupe.644834970@alanya> lupe@alanya.Central.Sun.COM (Lupe Christoph - Sun Germany Consulting - Munich) writes: >BTW, I believe I heard that Workbench 2.0 implements the Open Look >GUI. Is that true ? I have not really compared the few snapshots >I've seen to Open Look on Sun's. No, it's not OpenLook. It is, however, far nicer than 1.3, and more similar in functionality to OpenLook/NextStep/etc than it used to be, with the Gadget Toolkit, boopsi (intuition's class system), custom gadgets, "3d look" aka new look, etc. -- Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup Common phrase heard at Amiga Devcon '89: "It's in there!"
dz@lemon.ucsb.edu (Daniel James Zerkle) (06/12/90)
In article <12477@cbmvax.commodore.com> jesup@cbmvax (Randell Jesup) writes: > > Our SysVR4 Unix will support both X and OpenLook (on top of X I think), >so it should work. (No Suntools, of course.) Wonderful! Is this official? >I think X works in 4MB, but >OpenLook may require more than 4MB ram to work well. THe unix guys could >answer more precisely. Being a "Unix Guy", I pity the fool who tries to run ANY windowing environment, and expecially X, in less than 8 megabytes on UNIX. You CAN do it in 4 (I've seen it happen). However, when our lab of Suns went from 4 megs to 8, the improvement was spectacular. In 4 megs, you will spend all of your time paging (I've done some tests). Multi-user is hopeless. Two medium-sized or one large application really make performance go down the tubes. Remember that SYSVR4 is going to have a HUGE kernel, since it includes both the Berkeley and AT&T stuff. Although 8 megabytes is much better, 12 still makes a significant improvement. Unfortunately, I have never seen two similar machines running X with 8 and 12 megs, I have heard about performance improvements on another platform -- the NeXT. That runs a windowing environment over a Unix-like operating system (Mach). People who upgrade from 8 to 12 megs say the performance increase is wonderful, especially in starting up large applications. I don't know about OpenLook, but as it is a huge application that runs on top of X, I would add memory appropriately. Also, remember that if you get Unix, you will need high performance disk storage. EVERYTHING that Unix does requires an access to the disk. What's more, the virtual memory system swaps and pages memory that has not been used lately to the disk drive. After you copy all of the Unix operating system files onto your disk (don't even THINK of running Unis from floppy-- you can't), you will need a good chunk of spare space (say, 20 megs) for swap and page space--the more the better. Of course, this is in addition to your normal Amiga files. Generally, the speed of the system is dependent on the speed of your disk. Of course, CPU speed is important, too, especially for mathematical applications. However, I cringe at the thought of Unix running on a slow disk with not enough RAM. Actually, I cringe at the memory of doing this. Anyway- Here's a summary of performance effects from most to least important: 1. RAM space: 4 megs to run, 8 megs to run decently, 12 megs to run well. Especially on a windowing Sys 5 release 4 system. 2. Disk space: Probably need 100 megs for full system, plus swap, plus user files, plus applications files, plus programming libraries, plus.... We use 600 meg drives at work for Sun 3/60's, but this is overkill. The NeXT does very well with 330 meg drives, but that comes with a slew of software you won't need. 3. Disk speed: Faster the better. Figure < 30 ms if you don't want the system to act like molasses in winter. < 15 ms is positively zippy. A 32-bit bus really helps here to keep the data moving. 4. CPU speed: A 12 mHz 68020 is just fine if you don't do any heavy number crunching. Actually, I don't know if 68020's go at 12 mHz, but I know they go at 16. You could slow one of those down :). I don't think Amiga Unix will run on less than a 68020. 5. Network throughput: This only counts if you are using your system as a client on a network so you can get files from someone else's disk. Bandwidth on ethernet is so high that you will have to worry more about whether the disk serving all the clients can deal with it. Figure 1 server per six machines, if all machines are in use at once. Naturally, bigger and faster disks can handle more clients. Well, I got way off the topic. I hope you find this useful, and not too discouraging. Of course, the numbers I'm talking about are for optimum performance. You may get the system to WORK with less. You will just be able to do much better. Just don't try to do anything on Unix with less than 4 megabytes or RAM, or people will laugh at you. And if you want the system to go faster, spend the cash on RAM first, then spend it on the other stuff. | Dan Zerkle home:(805) 968-4683 work:687-0110 | | dz@cornu.ucsb.edu dz%cornu@ucsbuxa.bitnet ...ucbvax!hub!cornu!dz | | Snailmail: 6681 Berkshire Terrace #5, Isla Vista, CA 93117 | | Disclaimer: My fish are stupid. |