hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) (07/30/90)
I've had a Seagate 251N for over two years. Contrary to the experiences of others on the net, I've had no problems....until this morning. I have the classic "stiction" problem. The drive fails to spin up. I've taken it out of the machine, and bent the grounding strap back. I'm now trying to remember if it is as simple as turning the spindle (a small black "bump"). The thought of taking pliers to it concerns me. Any experiences welcome. --hal -- hgm@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu "I'm _not_ looser than clams!" netoprhm@ncsuvm.bitnet Zoogz Rift _Interim Resurgence_
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (07/31/90)
hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) in <1990Jul30.153310.7818@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>
writes:
I've had a Seagate 251N for over two years. Contrary to the
experiences of others on the net, I've had no problems....until this
morning.
I have the classic "stiction" problem. The drive fails to spin up.
I've taken it out of the machine, and bent the grounding strap back.
I'm now trying to remember if it is as simple as turning the spindle
(a small black "bump"). The thought of taking pliers to it concerns
me.
Any experiences welcome.
Welcome to the "club". :-(
As discussed last year in this forum, the problem requires over a year of
operation before it surfaces (no pun :-); i.e. after the warranty expires.
If you don't rotate the drive's spindle, how do you expect to "break" the
stiction? As I reported last month (re: an ST157N), gentle application of
pliers to the "bump" with a twisting motion should do the trick. Then power
up and get your data off that drive ASAP and buy another manufacturer's HD as
a replacement.
Sigh. I cannot think of any other computer-related company (except, perhaps,
for C.Ltd) whose products have caused so much grief for so many people.
Because of my own experience with Seagate (11 drives and 11 failures; drives
including ST251 and ST157), I cannot recommend ANY product from that company.
Seagates ALSO have failed in my office secretaries' Macs due to stiction,
and I've received hundreds of emails from others reporting problems with
Seagate drives in systems by AT&T, Motorola, IBM, etc.
Last month's posting (by someone else) titled "Other than that.." (re: Seagates
and non-spin) strongly suggests that Seagate has NOT gotten its act together
and is continuing to manufacture defective drives.
Caveat emptor.
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]RIDOUT@ddnvx1.afwl.af.mil (07/31/90)
In article <32282@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) in <1990Jul30.153310.7818@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> > writes: > > I've had a Seagate 251N for over two years. Contrary to the > experiences of others on the net, I've had no problems....until this > morning. > > I have the classic "stiction" problem. The drive fails to spin up. > I've taken it out of the machine, and bent the grounding strap back. > I'm now trying to remember if it is as simple as turning the spindle > (a small black "bump"). The thought of taking pliers to it concerns > me. > > Any experiences welcome. > > Welcome to the "club". :-( > > As discussed last year in this forum, the problem requires over a year of > operation before it surfaces (no pun :-); i.e. after the warranty expires. > > If you don't rotate the drive's spindle, how do you expect to "break" the > stiction? As I reported last month (re: an ST157N), gentle application of > pliers to the "bump" with a twisting motion should do the trick. Then power > up and get your data off that drive ASAP and buy another manufacturer's HD as > a replacement. > > Sigh. I cannot think of any other computer-related company (except, perhaps, > for C.Ltd) whose products have caused so much grief for so many people. > > Because of my own experience with Seagate (11 drives and 11 failures; drives > including ST251 and ST157), I cannot recommend ANY product from that company. > Seagates ALSO have failed in my office secretaries' Macs due to stiction, > and I've received hundreds of emails from others reporting problems with > Seagate drives in systems by AT&T, Motorola, IBM, etc. > > Last month's posting (by someone else) titled "Other than that.." (re: Seagates > and non-spin) strongly suggests that Seagate has NOT gotten its act together > and is continuing to manufacture defective drives. > > Caveat emptor. > > Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] This is not an amiga experance but since I have been following this discussion I thought it was appropos. I run some VAXes here and I needed to update the console for my VAX 8700. DEC does that by building a console on a harddrive at their shop and then swap it with yours. They did and when it was put in I noticed it was a Segate (ST157 I beleve). Soon after we had a powerout and the drive failed to spinup. After this happened a few times I talked to DEC and said I want my original disk back. They build the console and swaped it back. Once again I looked at what drive is was. Well what do you know, it was a Quantum. It has always, and is continuing to work fine. The Dec field service engineer says thay have at times gone through several segates before finding one that works. -- **************************************************************************** * Brian Ridout Internet: ridout@ddnvx1.afwl.af.mil * * wl/scev * * Kirtland AFB NM 87117 My Apple is better than your Orange. * ****************************************************************************
rick@tmiuv0.uucp (08/03/90)
In article <1990Jul30.153310.7818@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) writes: > I've had a Seagate 251N for over two years. Contrary to the experiences of > others on the net, I've had no problems....until this morning. "The score is Seagate: about 35,000; Users: 0. We'll be back to the action following this commercial message." 8-) > I have the classic "stiction" problem. The drive fails to spin up. I've > taken it out of the machine, and bent the grounding strap back. I'm now > trying to remember if it is as simple as turning the spindle (a small black > "bump"). The thought of taking pliers to it concerns me. Well, I bought some wooden-stick Q-Tips and cut one of the "puffs" off. I used that raw piece of wood to stick between the circuit card and the HDA (head-disk assembly) to spin the flywheel for the platter to the left (with the PCB on top). If you look between the PCB and HDA, you should see the edge of a silver disk. That's the flywheel. Use some sort of skinny object (the Q-Tip is perfect) to rotate that thing to the left if the PCB is on top. It'll break free. You can then apply power to the drive (you don't have to have the controller hooked up) to verify you've freed the thing. Alternately, you can unscrew the PCB, flip it back (be CAREFUL) and spin the flywheel clockwise by hand. Make sure that you rebend the static grounding strap back so it's in contact with the spindle. The pliers will work, but use needle nosed ones and put a layer of electrical tape on each of the jaws so you don't score the spindle. Another way of doing it is to get a pencil with an eraser. Put the pencil (eraser end down) on top of the spindle (so that the pencil becomes an extension of the spindle) and twist the pencil. > hgm@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu "I'm _not_ looser than clams!" > netoprhm@ncsuvm.bitnet Zoogz Rift _Interim Resurgence_ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- [- O] Rick Stevens ? EMail: uunet!zardoz!tmiuv0!rick -or- uunet!zardoz!xyclone!sysop V CIS: 75006,1355 (75006.1355@compuserve.com from Internet) "Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle science fiction." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz (08/03/90)
In article <32282@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) in <1990Jul30.153310.7818@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> > writes: > > I've had a Seagate 251N for over two years. Contrary to the > experiences of others on the net, I've had no problems....until this > morning. > > I have the classic "stiction" problem. The drive fails to spin up. > I've taken it out of the machine, and bent the grounding strap back. > I'm now trying to remember if it is as simple as turning the spindle > (a small black "bump"). The thought of taking pliers to it concerns > me. > > Any experiences welcome. > > Welcome to the "club". :-( > > As discussed last year in this forum, the problem requires over a year of > operation before it surfaces (no pun :-); i.e. after the warranty expires. > > If you don't rotate the drive's spindle, how do you expect to "break" the > stiction? As I reported last month (re: an ST157N), gentle application of > pliers to the "bump" with a twisting motion should do the trick. Then power > up and get your data off that drive ASAP and buy another manufacturer's HD as > a replacement. I'm not at all sure this is the same problem that Quantum made famous at all. Another possibility is that the brush/ contact arrangement of the motor is a bit suboptimal, and that it is possible for the motor to come to rest without the brushes being in touch with any contacts. In this case, the motor will start again if it is turned very slightly; cf stiction when it would require to be turned quite a lot. The 'very slightly' is probably on par with the gentle thump on the side of the case that many people have reported to work. Lots of motors develop this problem with age (as the brushes wear) and many people may have noticed it with their vacuum cleaner. Regards Alan
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (08/04/90)
BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz in <10779@wehi.dn.mu.oz> writes:
I'm not at all sure this is the same problem that Quantum made famous
at all. Another possibility is that the brush/ contact arrangement of
the motor is a bit suboptimal, and that it is possible for the motor
to come to rest without the brushes being in touch with any contacts.
In this case, the motor will start again if it is turned very
slightly; cf stiction when it would require to be turned quite a lot.
The 'very slightly' is probably on par with the gentle thump on the
side of the case that many people have reported to work. Lots of
motors develop this problem with age (as the brushes wear) and many
people may have noticed it with their vacuum cleaner.
Regards Alan
Sorry to read you missed last year's discussions in these regards; the
problem is definitely stiction as verified by examination under microscope
by several hard disk repair places here in N.California.
Of course, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Seagate makes shoddy motors,
too! :-)
Thad
P.S. When I unstuck my ST157N, I used plumber's pliers and spun that sucker
quite violently. I was actually prepared to destroy the damned drive, as a
moment earlier I had ripped the anti-static tab right off the PC board using
the same pliers.
Hmmm, wasn't there a story on the wires recently about Seagate drives which,
if spun counter-clockwise, would issue Satanic chants through the voice-coil
actuator? :-) :-)
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]ssd@sugar.hackercorp.com (Scott Denham) (08/05/90)
In article <10779@wehi.dn.mu.oz>, BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz writes: > I'm not at all sure this is the same problem that Quantum made famous at all. > Another possibility is that the brush/ contact arrangement of the motor is > a bit suboptimal, and that it is possible for the motor to come to rest > without the brushes being in touch with any contacts. In this case, the > motor will start again if it is turned very slightly; cf stiction when > it would require to be turned quite a lot. The 'very slightly' is probably > on par with the gentle thump on the side of the case that many people have > reported to work. Lots of motors develop this problem with age (as the brushes > wear) and many people may have noticed it with their vacuum cleaner. > > Regards Alan No, I'm quite certain that the Seagate problem is stiction and not a faulty motor design; I've dealt with a number of them and am currently a double qualified member of the "Seagate Stiction Victim's Club" myself :( :( :( When one applies the twist of life to the nasty little things spindle, you can feel the thing break loose, and after that the drive will turn quite freely.