wille@frith.msu.edu (Jeffrey Wille) (07/26/90)
I recently posted an article requesting help on formatting my 40 Meg Quantum Prodrive w/ a CLtd host adaptor. I had two responses, suggesting that I use the GenFormat program. Thanks for your responses. I tried it, and it says Formatting SCSI Address 0, Interleave 1 ... After that, I hear the head move for a second, and then it says Format Status OK and quits. Any more ideas? Something I need to fix in my devsetup file? It doesn't seem to make any difference whether or not I run devinstall. Any additional help would be greatly appreciated. Jeff Wille (wille@frith.egr.msu.edu) (wille@happy.egr.msu.edu) Torture numbers, and they'll confess to anything. -- Gregg Easterbrook
jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) (07/26/90)
In article <1990Jul25.190605.11054@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wille@frith.msu.edu (Jeffrey Wille) writes: >I recently posted an article requesting help on formatting my 40 Meg >Quantum Prodrive w/ a CLtd host adaptor. I had two responses, suggesting >that I use the GenFormat program. Thanks for your responses. I tried it, >and it says > >Formatting SCSI Address 0, Interleave 1 ... > >After that, I hear the head move for a second, and then it says >Format Status OK and quits. Any more ideas? Something I need to fix in >my devsetup file? It doesn't seem to make any difference whether or >not I run devinstall. Any additional help would be greatly appreciated. Quantums "format" by merely checking to see if they think they're formatted, or some such. In any case, a Format_Unit on a Quantum takes < 5 seconds, and doesn't erase any data on the drive. -- Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup Common phrase heard at Amiga Devcon '89: "It's in there!"
rick@tmiuv0.uucp (07/30/90)
In article <1990Jul25.190605.11054@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wille@frith.msu.edu (Jeffrey Wille) writes: > I recently posted an article requesting help on formatting my 40 Meg > Quantum Prodrive w/ a CLtd host adaptor. I had two responses, suggesting > that I use the GenFormat program. Thanks for your responses. I tried it, > and it says > > Formatting SCSI Address 0, Interleave 1 ... > > After that, I hear the head move for a second, and then it says > Format Status OK and quits. Any more ideas? Something I need to fix in > my devsetup file? It doesn't seem to make any difference whether or > not I run devinstall. Any additional help would be greatly appreciated. > > Jeff Wille (wille@frith.egr.msu.edu) > (wille@happy.egr.msu.edu) > Quantum drives don't actually do a low-level format. Essentially, they recalibrate (reseek track 0) and report "Done". There are a few other drives which do this. "SCSI is a standard that isn't". To my knowledge, the only way to low-level format a Quantum is to send it back to Quantum. Also, since no low-level format is actually done, Quantums are prime candidates for the "0 in block 0" FFS bug. There are other drives with the same problem. Hey, SCSI drive makers: either implement the command or refuse it. Don't fake it out. It seems that several of the manufacturers merely take the SCSI standard as a "strong suggestion". Perhaps we need a new division of the police known as the "SCSI Squad". I'll get off my soapbox now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- [- O] Rick Stevens ? EMail: uunet!zardoz!tmiuv0!rick -or- uunet!zardoz!xyclone!sysop V CIS: 75006,1355 (75006.1355@compuserve.com from Internet) "I'm tellin' ya, Valiant! Da whole ting stinks like yesterday's diapers!" - Baby Herman in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (07/31/90)
In <3757@tmiuv0.uucp>, rick@tmiuv0.uucp writes: >In article <1990Jul25.190605.11054@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wille@frith.msu.edu (Jeffrey Wille) writes: >> I recently posted an article requesting help on formatting my 40 Meg >> Quantum Prodrive w/ a CLtd host adaptor. I had two responses, suggesting >> that I use the GenFormat program. Thanks for your responses. I tried it, >> and it says >> >> Formatting SCSI Address 0, Interleave 1 ... >> >> After that, I hear the head move for a second, and then it says >> Format Status OK and quits. Any more ideas? Something I need to fix in >> my devsetup file? It doesn't seem to make any difference whether or >> not I run devinstall. Any additional help would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Jeff Wille (wille@frith.egr.msu.edu) >> (wille@happy.egr.msu.edu) >> > >Quantum drives don't actually do a low-level format. Essentially, they >recalibrate (reseek track 0) and report "Done". There are a few other >drives which do this. "SCSI is a standard that isn't". Whether a drive actually does or does not do a low level format when it receives the command has absolutely nothing to do with the SCSI standard (or SCSI-2 for that matter. The drive knows best. If a low level format is required, it is performed, otherwise, it is not. >To my knowledge, the only way to low-level format a Quantum is to send it >back to Quantum. There is a way to do it (I don't know the method offhand, but have been told that it can be done), but it requires a special set of commands to make it happen. > Also, since no low-level format is actually done, Quantums >are prime candidates for the "0 in block 0" FFS bug. What 'zero in block zero FFS bug'? You aren't thinking of the 'non zero in memory location zero FFS <sort of bug>' are you? > There are other drives >with the same problem. Hey, SCSI drive makers: either implement the command >or refuse it. Don't fake it out. Quantum is not 'faking it. The successful return of the SCSI Format command is saying "Ok, I am low level formatted", whether it actually does rewrite the bitstream or not (and yes, the controller looks at it as a bitstream). > It seems that several of the manufacturers >merely take the SCSI standard as a "strong suggestion". Perhaps we need a >new division of the police known as the "SCSI Squad". Yeah, just what we need. We'll end up with drives that dare not do anything above the lowest common denominator, whether it matters to the SCSI spec or not, because some yahoo SCSI vigilante will decide that the spec really meant this, instead of that. I agree that there are a lot of drives out there whose designers have chosen to interpret the SCSI spec in different manners, but that is the fault of the spec, not the fault of those who have to interpret ambiguous and muddy definitions, and the Quantum's handling of the low level format command does NOT fall into that area at all. -larry -- Sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) (07/31/90)
In article <3757@tmiuv0.uucp> rick@tmiuv0.uucp writes: >Quantum drives don't actually do a low-level format. Essentially, they >recalibrate (reseek track 0) and report "Done". There are a few other >drives which do this. "SCSI is a standard that isn't". > >To my knowledge, the only way to low-level format a Quantum is to send it >back to Quantum. Also, since no low-level format is actually done, Quantums >are prime candidates for the "0 in block 0" FFS bug. There are other drives >with the same problem. Hey, SCSI drive makers: either implement the command >or refuse it. Don't fake it out. It seems that several of the manufacturers >merely take the SCSI standard as a "strong suggestion". Perhaps we need a >new division of the police known as the "SCSI Squad". Well, if I remember right, the SCSI standard doesn't say what a drive has to do the the media for Format_Unit, and that the data in the sectors is not guaranteed to have any particular data in it (which of course means that the old data that was there is allowable). I suspect that if the quantum thought it had an unformatted disk (by whatever means) it would go out and write the sectoring information. In particular, Format_Unit does not guarantee a media check, even if it does go and format every track. You can supply bad block lists to Format_Unit if you know where they are (the normal default is to always map out the sectors the manufacturer marked as bad). We normally recommend you do a Verify (Verify Data on Drive in HDToolBox) on the drive and map out any bad or marginal sectors after a Format_Unit for safety. -- Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup Common phrase heard at Amiga Devcon '89: "It's in there!"
hargen@pdn.paradyne.com (Bill Hargen) (08/07/90)
In article <3757@tmiuv0.uucp> rick@tmiuv0.uucp writes: >Quantum drives don't actually do a low-level format. Essentially, they >recalibrate (reseek track 0) and report "Done". There are a few other >drives which do this. "SCSI is a standard that isn't". > >To my knowledge, the only way to low-level format a Quantum is to send it >back to Quantum. I have been working on writing a SCSI driver and the Prodrive 170S is one of the drives that I'm working with. I also noticed that the format command doesn't seem to do a real format (the heads jump around for about 5 seconds and then it claims it's done). The sales rep told me the same thing. Apparently Quantum believes that if a format is really necessary, then something is very wrong and the drive should be returned to the factory. However, try this: - issue the format command - before it has a chance to finish, PULL THE POWER (a SCSI bus reset may be sufficient, I just took the more direct approach :-) - now try another format I can't guarantee that this will cause it to do a real format, but it takes quite a bit longer and "sounds right". I too wish that drives weren't this "smart". Damn it, if I say format, I mean format! Hope this helps. -- Bill Hargen AT&T Paradyne {uunet,peora}!pdn!hargen Mail stop LG-132 Phone: (813) 530-8655 P.O. Box 2826 Largo, FL 34649-2826