pierre@pro-graphics.cts.com (Pierre Altamore) (09/16/90)
Someone recently asked what you would call something that could do what the
Amiga can do (animation wise) but with 24-bit. So after (not so) much
thought about the very significant problems of upgrading the Amiga's
built-in graphics capability I have come up with this scheme. I am NOT a
programmer or a hardware guru, nor do I pretend to be. I'm just one of
many who find it hard to belive that Commodore hasn't done anything about
this yet.
This is the (slightly modified) Amiga Block Diagram from the Amiga Hardware
Reference Manual, page 11:
___________________
| |
| System Expansion | _________
| (Slots) | | | ____________
|___________________| | A | +------| |
| | | R | | | 16-bit ECS |
| | | B B | | +----|____________|
_____ | | | U I L | | |
| |<---+ --+-[ Data ]----+----+-->| F A T O |-+ |
| CPU | | | | | | F N R G | |
|_____|<-+---+---[Address]-+----+---->| E D A I |---+
| | | | | | | R T C |
| | | | | | | S I |--------------+
______|_| | | | | | O |------------+ |
| | | | | | | N | | |
| CIA | | | ___|_| |_________| __________|_|__________
| No.1 | | | | | | |
| (8520) | | | | ROM | | 32-bit Custom Bus |
|________| | | |_____| |_______________________|
| | This is the | |
______|_| only new --> | SCS (Super Chip Set) |
| | part | 24-bit graphics |
| CIA | | 8-bit blitter fun |
| No.2 | |_______________________|
| (8520) |
|________|
What's wrong with this picture? [ asking for >'s ]
The idea is to add another (much updated) custom chip section and modify or
add to the arbitration logic to deal with which is which. The 16-bit
section should probably be included on all motherboards so it'd be
available to old/current apps. But the 32-bit section should be on an
expansion card which plugs into a motherboard slot providing easy
upgradability to whatever the future may bring. New software could use the
32-bit SCS by just asking for it (a shared library maybe?), and software
that don't ask would use the 16-bit ECS by default.
The idea here is to start from scratch, for no-holds-barred performance and
not much attention to cheapo weirdness like HAM. Implement all of the
wonderful Amiga animation capabilities available now at 5-bits, EHB and HAM,
but with 8-bit color at a competitive resolution like 640x480. Provide easy
upgrades through expandable video RAM so when 1280x1280 is the 'standard' we
won't be left out. Stick a RISC graphics co-processor onboard for snappy
24-bit screen updates. A z-buffer, alpha channel, etc.. A DSP for compact
disc (and better) audio processing, voice recognition, uncanny speech
synthesis and digitizing (and include a GOOD mike with ALL machines).
Include the 32-bit SCS slot on ALL machines, sell it installed in a
high-horsepower 50MHz 030 and 25MHz 040, and make it an option on 'vannila'
2000-3000s. This is kinda what the IBM world does no? If you boot up your
color software and you have a VGA card (and the software sees it or it's
driver) you'll see nifty graphics, if you have CGA you see crap, etc...
16-bit ECS and 32-bit SCS screens should be able to coexist and be
draggable (maybe not both visible at the same time). Add this to the 3000
motherboard, ditch the backplane and put some REAL slots in, mount it in a
tower with ample 3.5" and 5.25" bays and a monster power supply, USE some
of the good ideas that Apple and NeXT have had like power switch on the
keyboard, and advertise it to power users, corporations and schools. Maybe
using the DSP and some extra circuitry, a video input (included) would be
possible to provide the much hyped (and pretty neat) 'live video in a
window'.
Subliminal message to Commodore follows..
STRATIFY THE PRODUCT LINE! Commodore's vision seems to be a little too
limitied. The Amiga 3000/25 is wonderful, but where is the 3000/50?
Does Commodore realize the massive press coverage Apple got for the 40MHz
MacIIfx? The headlines that Apple has the fastest PC available were
deafening. Imagine the free press CBM would get for a 50MHz machine. This
strategy would probably sell more Amigas than spending $15 million to
levitate houses did... this would be FRONT PAGE COVERAGE, for FREE.
UUCP: crash!pro-graphics!pierre | Critical Mass Software
ARPA/DDN: pro-graphics!pierre@nosc.mil | P.O. Box 23
Internet: pierre@pro-graphics.cts.com | Short Hills, NJ 07078caldwell_t@darwin.ntu.edu.au (09/17/90)
> What's wrong with this picture? [ asking for >'s ] > > The idea is to add another (much updated) custom chip section and modify or > add to the arbitration logic to deal with which is which. The 16-bit > section should probably be included on all motherboards so it'd be > available to old/current apps. But the 32-bit section should be on an > expansion card which plugs into a motherboard slot providing easy > upgradability to whatever the future may bring. New software could use the > 32-bit SCS by just asking for it (a shared library maybe?), and software > that don't ask would use the 16-bit ECS by default. Ok here are my ponderings on the matter of WE_WANT_24BIT ect. I could well be wrong, but I think that C= are probably working on some kind of 24 bit board. I don't think that it will be far off either. Maybe in about 6 months. The reason I think this is that C= are saying nothing about 24 bit boards ect. They are not saying that it would be too hard, too high end or anything else. They arn't responding to any amount of askings. I think that it will probably be fairly much as you state. The video slot allinged with the expansion slot is, in my opinion, a clue. > Include the 32-bit SCS slot on ALL machines, sell it installed in a > high-horsepower 50MHz 030 and 25MHz 040, and make it an option on 'vannila' > 2000-3000s. This is kinda what the IBM world does no? If you boot up your I think that video is probably handled separately from other development > STRATIFY THE PRODUCT LINE! Commodore's vision seems to be a little too > limitied. The Amiga 3000/25 is wonderful, but where is the 3000/50? > Does Commodore realize the massive press coverage Apple got for the 40MHz > MacIIfx? The headlines that Apple has the fastest PC available were > deafening. Imagine the free press CBM would get for a 50MHz machine. This > strategy would probably sell more Amigas than spending $15 million to > levitate houses did... this would be FRONT PAGE COVERAGE, for FREE. Do you claim to know what commodore's vision is. Commodore keep things fairly much under wraps these days until time for launch. At least until close to launch when they can't help telling people. > > UUCP: crash!pro-graphics!pierre | Critical Mass Software > ARPA/DDN: pro-graphics!pierre@nosc.mil | P.O. Box 23 > Internet: pierre@pro-graphics.cts.com | Short Hills, NJ 07078 I don't expect anyone from C= to respond to this. But couldn't they just say YES or NO and stop all this mindless speculation? It would seem that, if they are just keeping quite, that this issue is doing the amiga's image BAD. People say - AMIGAS used to be the machines for graphics work, but now they don't compair to MACIIs ect. So how about it commodore? Could you please just give us the quick word? &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& This article is pure speculation. I have no real idea of any details of the existance or otherwise of anything at all. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Malcolm Caldwell | CALDWELL_T@DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU Darwin Australia |FIDO 3:690/648.3
mks@cbmvax.commodore.com (Michael Sinz) (09/18/90)
In article <1990Sep18.014227.381@darwin.ntu.edu.au> caldwell_t@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: [ Much deleted ranting and raving ] >I don't expect anyone from C= to respond to this. But couldn't they just >say YES or NO and stop all this mindless speculation? > >It would seem that, if they are just keeping quite, that this issue is >doing the amiga's image BAD. People say - AMIGAS used to be the machines >for graphics work, but now they don't compair to MACIIs ect. > >So how about it commodore? Could you please just give us the quick word? Quick: Adjective - Characterized by great celerity. rapid, fast, swift, speedy, fleet, breakneck, celeritous. >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& >This article is pure speculation. I have no real idea of any details of >the existance or otherwise of anything at all. >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& > > > Malcolm Caldwell | CALDWELL_T@DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU > Darwin Australia |FIDO 3:690/648.3 :-) /----------------------------------------------------------------------\ | /// Michael Sinz Amiga Software Engineer | | /// PHONE 215-431-9100 UUCP ( uunet | rutgers ) !cbmvax!mks | | /// | |\\\/// Quantum Physics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. | | \XX/ | \----------------------------------------------------------------------/
jep@mtiame.oz (Jesper Peterson) (09/27/90)
In article <1990Sep18.014227.381@darwin.ntu.edu.au> caldwell_t@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >Ok here are my ponderings on the matter of WE_WANT_24BIT ect. > >I could well be wrong, but I think that C= are probably working on some >kind of 24 bit board. I don't think that it will be far off either. Maybe >in about 6 months. > >The reason I think this is that C= are saying nothing about 24 bit boards >ect. They are not saying that it would be too hard, too high end or >anything else. They arn't responding to any amount of askings. There is currently a UNIX exhibition here in Melbourne (AUUG conference). Commodore is there with a 3000UX with a U-Lowell board and a NEC XL Multisync monitor (veeery nice). Two american dudes were demoing the unit. I ask if that is the UL board. "Yes" I'm told. "Does it come with the 3000UX" I ask. "It will be an option" I'm told. One {Henry,Harry} Rubin was there during the conversation, apparenlty he is Chief Opering Officer or some such at Commodore International. I'm going back to the exhibit today to fill in the blanks. The 3000UX had a 200M drive and a tape in a cigar-box, but otherwise looked like a standard 3000. Open Look was nice, though not blindingly fast. They were using X11R3 (no shape extension), I was told there would be speed improvements with X11R4 (I know this to be true from personal experience). Pricing was not confirmed but would be AUS$7000-8000 with the above configuration and a UL board !!!! (I'll be triple checking this figure fer shure). A standard 3000 (25/40) seems to be priced in stores at about AUS$6400, so do your own currancy conversion. Jesper. -- ACSnet: jep@mtiame.mtia.oz UUCP: ...!uunet!munnari!mtiame.oz!jep My favorite kill move is to befriend the opponent and have him die of old age. - dbn@wyvern.UUCP (Daniel B. Nissman) in rec.martial-arts
jep@mtiame.oz (Jesper Peterson) (09/27/90)
In article <291@mtiame.oz> I wrote: >[...] >experience). Pricing was not confirmed but would be AUS$7000-8000 with >the above configuration and a UL board !!!! (I'll be triple checking >this figure fer shure). A standard 3000 (25/40) seems to be priced in >stores at about AUS$6400, so do your own currancy conversion. After cornering a couple more Commodore reps, it came down to this: 3000UX (25/200) with tape, SVR4 and X: AUS$8500. ULowell card will be an add on extra, no price as yet. The UL card will be supported under AmigaDos but "the WB patches are not yet complete". (Yippee. Now we just need some applications) Are any of the "real" Commodore people going to spill the beans and tell us how the applications interface to the UL card will work, and say what the real name for this sucker is? I agree, 2.0 looks real nice. Jesper. -- ACSnet: jep@mtiame.mtia.oz UUCP: ...!uunet!munnari!mtiame.oz!jep My favorite kill move is to befriend the opponent and have him die of old age. - dbn@wyvern.UUCP (Daniel B. Nissman) in rec.martial-arts