[comp.sys.amiga.hardware] FlickerFixer 2.0

rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (01/31/91)

  With the damn of the A2320 card, many people thought products like
MicroWay's flickerfixer were no longer needed. I have an idea that perhaps
some enterprising company may want to produce someday. 
  The ECS Denise provides 2 new interlaced modes, 640x960 and 1280x400.
The Display Enhancer on the A3000 nor the 2320 deinterlaces these(
probably slow/not enough ram on the card for sampling). So is it
feasibly possible to de-interlace these modes, and will any monitor support it?

hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (02/01/91)

In article <1991Jan31.053440.26713@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes:
>
>  With the damn of the A2320 card, many people thought products like
>MicroWay's flickerfixer were no longer needed. I have an idea that perhaps
>some enterprising company may want to produce someday. 
>  The ECS Denise provides 2 new interlaced modes, 640x960 and 1280x400.
>The Display Enhancer on the A3000 nor the 2320 deinterlaces these(
>probably slow/not enough ram on the card for sampling). So is it
>feasibly possible to de-interlace these modes, and will any monitor support it?

Technically, this type of card would be possible, but would cost at
least twice as much as the current de-interlacer/scan-doubler type of
devices today.  The real problem is that instead of outputing 28Mhz
pixels, such as these devices do today, the version 2 card would be
outputing about 57Mhz pixel data.  You would have to buy a very
expensive monitor that has a video bandwidth that high so that you could
resolve these pixels on the display!!  So, instead of spending about
$700 - $900 dollors for say the A2320 and A1950 monitor, you would have
to spend about $1600 for this new display device and appropiate monitor.
Not what I would call a high-volume or even a cost-effective solution!

But then again, some third-party developer may feel He/She has a market
for such a device - go for it!

Regards,
Scott Hood

-- 
--
Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew),  Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood   hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
  "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" 

231b3678@fergvax.unl.edu (CS 231 section 2) (02/01/91)

In article <1991Jan31.053440.26713@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes:
>
>  With the damn of the A2320 card, many people thought products like
>MicroWay's flickerfixer were no longer needed. I have an idea that perhaps
>some enterprising company may want to produce someday. 
>  The ECS Denise provides 2 new interlaced modes, 640x960 and 1280x400.
>The Display Enhancer on the A3000 nor the 2320 deinterlaces these(
>probably slow/not enough ram on the card for sampling). So is it
>feasibly possible to de-interlace these modes, and will any monitor support it?

If not these new modes, the flickfixer should still be used on the DE-interlaced a3000!!  My eyes aren't very good, but whenever I see an a3000 (or a video toaster ad on tv), the screen still has JITTER problems!!
 
Phil Dietz


-- Subliminal Signature
                                                            Phil Dietz 
   A      M      I      G      A              231b3678@fergvax.unl.edu       
                                                     Univ. of Nebraska

dewolfe@ug.cs.dal.ca (Colin DeWolfe) (02/01/91)

In article <1991Jan31.230353.20099@hoss.unl.edu> 231b3678@fergvax.unl.edu (CS 231 section 2) writes:
>In article <1991Jan31.053440.26713@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes:
>>
>
>If not these new modes, the flickfixer should still be used on the DE-interlaced a3000!!  My eyes aren't very good, but whenever I see an a3000 (or a video toaster ad on tv), the screen still has JITTER problems!!
> 
My 3000 looks fine to me.  What you probably see is the bouncing problems of
the original 1950 monitors..

As for the toaster ad, NTSC jitters as a matter of specification.  I find
all computer generated graphics/animations on NTSC to display this effect,
whether the were generated on a Chiron 5 Character Generator or a Pixar or
IRIS.  I even notice jitter and motion aliasing on live video from a camera.

Also, you should know better than to throw tidbits like, "or a video toaster
ad on tv".  Now you're gonna have to tell us ALL about it.  :-)

>Phil Dietz
>
>
>-- Subliminal Signature
>                                                            Phil Dietz 
>   A      M      I      G      A              231b3678@fergvax.unl.edu       
>                                                     Univ. of Nebraska

--
Colin DeWolfe
dewolfe@ug.cs.dal.ca

manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) (02/01/91)

In article <18375@cbmvax.commodore.com>, hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes:
> In article <1991Jan31.053440.26713@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes:
>>
> Technically, this type of card would be possible, but would cost at
> least twice as much as the current de-interlacer/scan-doubler type of
> devices today.  The real problem is that instead of outputing 28Mhz
> pixels, such as these devices do today, the version 2 card would be
> outputing about 57Mhz pixel data.  You would have to buy a very
> expensive monitor that has a video bandwidth that high so that you could
> resolve these pixels on the display!!  So, instead of spending about
> $700 - $900 dollors for say the A2320 and A1950 monitor, you would have
> to spend about $1600 for this new display device and appropiate monitor.
> Not what I would call a high-volume or even a cost-effective solution!
> 
> But then again, some third-party developer may feel He/She has a market
> for such a device - go for it!

I wonder if this is the solution to the problem that Amiga Unix faces 
when placed next to the Sun Workstations.  The biggest complaint that
I have heard thus far about the 3000UX is that you can't hook up a 
mega-pixel 19" monitor that is color.

Is there a better approach to this problem??

> 
> Regards,
> Scott Hood
> 
> -- 
> --
> Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew),  Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
>    {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood   hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
>   "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" 

 -mark=
     
 +--------+   ==================================================          
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes                    "Mr. AmigaVision" 
 | /\  \/ |   manes@vger.nsu.edu                                        
 |     /  |   (804) 683-2532    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================
                     

es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (02/02/91)

In article <1991Jan31.230353.20099@hoss.unl.edu> 231b3678@fergvax.unl.edu (CS 231 section 2) writes:
>If not these new modes, the flickfixer should still be used on the DE-interlaced a3000!!  My eyes aren't very good, but whenever I see an a3000 (or a video toaster ad on tv), the screen still has JITTER problems!!
> 
	The A3000 doesn't have jitter problems, you either have a
bad monitor or a bad deinterlacer and you should have it
repaired. It's as simple as that. Don't generalize your problem
to all A3000s, it's just not true.
	-- Ethan


	"It seemed like he appeared on every television show
except Wheel of Fortune. You see, he was afraid that Vanna might
turn over the 'L' word."
	-- George Bush attacking Michael Dukakis for going on TV

hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (02/04/91)

In article <579.27a9312b@vger.nsu.edu> manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) writes:
>In article <18375@cbmvax.commodore.com>, hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes:
>> In article <1991Jan31.053440.26713@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes:
>>>
>> Technically, this type of card would be possible, but would cost at
>> least twice as much as the current de-interlacer/scan-doubler type of
>> devices today.  The real problem is that instead of outputing 28Mhz
>> pixels, such as these devices do today, the version 2 card would be
>> outputing about 57Mhz pixel data.  You would have to buy a very
>> expensive monitor that has a video bandwidth that high so that you could
>> resolve these pixels on the display!!  So, instead of spending about
>> $700 - $900 dollors for say the A2320 and A1950 monitor, you would have
>> to spend about $1600 for this new display device and appropiate monitor.
>> Not what I would call a high-volume or even a cost-effective solution!
>> 
>> But then again, some third-party developer may feel He/She has a market
>> for such a device - go for it!
>
>I wonder if this is the solution to the problem that Amiga Unix faces 
>when placed next to the Sun Workstations.  The biggest complaint that
>I have heard thus far about the 3000UX is that you can't hook up a 
>mega-pixel 19" monitor that is color.
>
>Is there a better approach to this problem??
>
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Scott Hood
>> 
>> -- 
>> --
>> Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew),  Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
>>    {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood   hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
>>   "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" 
>
> -mark=
>     
> +--------+   ==================================================          
> | \/     |   Mark D. Manes                    "Mr. AmigaVision" 
> | /\  \/ |   manes@vger.nsu.edu                                        
> |     /  |   (804) 683-2532    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
> +--------+   ==================================================
>                     

Yes, there is!  If you purchase the A2410 Hi-res graphics board which
our UNIX can talk to, provides a display of up to 1024x1024 with 256
on-screen colors out of a palette of 16.8 million and with a 50Mhz
TI34010 graphics processor.  These board will be available from
Commodore in the near future.

I have seen these running on our A3000UX machines with Xwindows and it
looks great!!  These systems love to be hooked up to a 19" color monitor
as well!

Regards,
Scott Hood

-- 
--
Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew),  Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood   hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
  "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"