peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (02/13/91)
In article <18881@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: > >Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: > >$ff010000-$ffffffff Reserved I always have big difficulties reading such big hex numbers. Couldn't there be developed a standard to insert delimiters as in long decimal numbers (there all 3 digits) all 4 digits? How about $ff01'0000 (or comma or hyphen instead of "'")? We only would have to avoid the colon so that it couldn't be mixed up with Intel-like segment addressing. (And I myself would like to avoid comma and dot, because their use in decimal numbers is already reverse in USA and Germany. That produces big trouble enough, and I wouldn't like to cause such crap again with hex numbers.) Or is there already existing such a standard, only I don't know it and nobody uses it? -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (02/14/91)
In article <887@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <18881@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >> >>Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: >> >>$ff010000-$ffffffff Reserved > >I always have big difficulties reading such big hex numbers. Couldn't >there be developed a standard to insert delimiters as in long decimal >numbers (there all 3 digits) all 4 digits? > >How about $ff01'0000 (or comma or hyphen instead of "'")? Why not just use a space? $ff01 0000 Prior art: virtually every hex memory dump I've ever looked at looked like: f000: 00 00 00 00 00 00 I suppose using a space might be ambiguous in some cirucumstances. I don't like the quote or hyphen, but the comma could work (as it works in decimal numbers). I do agree that *some* seperator needs to be used. My eyes get lost after more than 5 digit in a row, especially in hexidecimal numbers. -- Dave Schaumann | DANGER: Access holes may tear easily. Use of the access | holes for lifting or carrying may result in damage to the dave@cs.arizona.edu | carton and subsequent injury to the user.
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (02/14/91)
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: > >$ff010000-$ffffffff Reserved peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: > I always have big difficulties reading such big hex numbers. Couldn't > there be developed a standard to insert delimiters as in long decimal > numbers (there all 3 digits) all 4 digits? > How about $ff01'0000 (or comma or hyphen instead of "'")? > We only would have to avoid the colon so that it couldn't be mixed up > with Intel-like segment addressing. > (And I myself would like to avoid comma and dot, because their use in > decimal numbers is already reverse in USA and Germany. That produces > big trouble enough, and I wouldn't like to cause such crap again with > hex numbers.) > Or is there already existing such a standard, only I don't know it and > nobody uses it? Yes, there does exist a very nice international standard for this purpose, and I suggest we adopt it posthaste! The ANSI/ISO standard for the Ada programming language defines numeric literals (in any base) to include underscore characters at arbitrary locations, which are only for human readability in source code, and are ignored by the compiler. Used every four hex characters, this makes Dave's table much more readable, and a lot easier to type from error free: Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: $_ff01_0000 - $_ffff_ffff Reserved $_ff00_0000 - $_ff00_ffff Zorro III autoconfig block $_8000_0000 - $_feff_ffff Reserved $_1000_0000 - $_7fff_ffff Zorro III board space $_0800_0000 - $_0fff_ffff Coprocessor slot board space $_0700_0000 - $_07ff_ffff A3000 Fast RAM $_0100_0000 - $_06ff_ffff Reserved (future motherboard space) $_00f8_0000 - $_00ff_ffff ROM $_00f0_0000 - $_00f7_ffff Production diagnostic ROM space $_00e9_0000 - $_00ef_ffff Zorro II I/O space $_00e8_0000 - $_00e8_ffff Zorro II autoconfig block $_00e0_0000 - $_00e7_ffff Reserved $_00b8_0000 - $_00df_ffff Motherboard I/O and reserved space $_00a0_0000 - $_00b7_ffff Zorro II I/O space $_0020_0000 - $_009f_ffff Zorro II memory space $_0000_0000 - $_001f_ffff Chip RAM Since the C compiler does not support this for input (or output, sort of), it can only be used for documentation, but it sure beats nothing, and doesn't conflict with either international usage mentioned above. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
rhialto@cs.kun.nl (Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert) (02/14/91)
In article <887@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: | In article <18881@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: | >Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: | >$ff010000-$ffffffff Reserved | Couldn't | there be developed a standard to insert delimiters as in long decimal | numbers (there all 3 digits) all 4 digits? How about $ff01 0000-$ffff ffff, i.e. just a space between every 4 digits. Since we must indeed avoid dot, comma and colon, there seem to remain few other choices. And since decimal numbers are sometimes written with spaces instead of , or . this seems a sensible choice. | Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
seamus@bucsf.bu.edu (Jeff Rizzo) (02/15/91)
In article <887@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: In article <18881@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: > >Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: > >$ff010000-$ffffffff Reserved I always have big difficulties reading such big hex numbers. Couldn't there be developed a standard to insert delimiters as in long decimal numbers (there all 3 digits) all 4 digits? How about $ff01'0000 (or comma or hyphen instead of "'")? I don't know about any "standard", but I usually just use a blank space, such as $ff01 0000, and I believe I've seen it used elsewhere too... In my own personal (and not-always-so-humble) opinion, hex numbers look REALLY funny with any sort of comma, period or apostrophe in them Just my $.02 ... let the flame wars begin :-) j -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Rizzo INTERNET: seamus@bucsf.bu.edu seamus@bu-pub.bu.edu Boston University BIX: jrizzo 219 Freeman St. #2 Brookline, MA 02146 (617)566-0693
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (02/15/91)
In article <855@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) writes: >Prior art: virtually every hex memory dump I've ever looked at looked like: >f000: 00 00 00 00 00 00 Sounds like you're dealing with an 8 bit machine there. On our 68030 emulator here lists with spaces depending on what you're listing. If you asked for bytes, you'd get "07f00000: 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 ...", but for longwords it would be "07f00000: 00010203 04050607..." -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "What works for me might work for you" -Jimmy Buffett
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (02/15/91)
In article <18986@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: |In article <855@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) writes: | ||Prior art: virtually every hex memory dump I've ever looked at looked like: ||f000: 00 00 00 00 00 00 | |Sounds like you're dealing with an 8 bit machine there. On our 68030 emulator |here lists with spaces depending on what you're listing. If you asked for |bytes, you'd get "07f00000: 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 ...", but for longwords |it would be "07f00000: 00010203 04050607..." Would it help if I said it was a C64/C128? Really. |Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" -- Dave Schaumann | DANGER: Access holes may tear easily. Use of the access | holes for lifting or carrying may result in damage to the dave@cs.arizona.edu | carton and subsequent injury to the user.
david@starsoft.hou.tx.us (Dave Lowrey) (02/21/91)
In article <1991Feb14.063939.28350@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: > > > daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: > > >Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: > > > >$ff010000-$ffffffff Reserved > > peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: > > > I always have big difficulties reading such big hex numbers. Couldn't > > there be developed a standard to insert delimiters as in long decimal > > numbers (there all 3 digits) all 4 digits? > > > How about $ff01'0000 (or comma or hyphen instead of "'")? > > > We only would have to avoid the colon so that it couldn't be mixed up > > with Intel-like segment addressing. > > > (And I myself would like to avoid comma and dot, because their use in > > decimal numbers is already reverse in USA and Germany. That produces > > big trouble enough, and I wouldn't like to cause such crap again with > > hex numbers.) > > > Or is there already existing such a standard, only I don't know it and > > nobody uses it? > > Yes, there does exist a very nice international standard for this > purpose, and I suggest we adopt it posthaste! The ANSI/ISO standard for > the Ada programming language defines numeric literals (in any base) to > include underscore characters at arbitrary locations, which are only for > human readability in source code, and are ignored by the compiler. Used > every four hex characters, this makes Dave's table much more readable, > and a lot easier to type from error free: > > > Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: > > $_ff01_0000 - $_ffff_ffff Reserved Yuck! Why not use spaces? Many debuggers and such allow them. I understand that underscores are easier to parse, but it looks awfull. ff01 0000 ff ab cc e1 ..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- These words be mine. The company doesn't care, because I am the company! :-) Dave Lowrey | david@starsoft.hou.tx.us Starbound Software Group | Houston, TX | "Dare to be stupid!" -- Weird Al Yankovic
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (02/21/91)
In article <david.0369@starsoft.hou.tx.us> david@starsoft.hou.tx.us (Dave Lowrey) writes: >In article <1991Feb14.063939.28350@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >> >> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >> >> >Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: >> > >> >$ff010000-$ffffffff Reserved >> >> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >> >> > I always have big difficulties reading such big hex numbers. Couldn't >> >> > How about $ff01'0000 (or comma or hyphen instead of "'")? >> >> > We only would have to avoid the colon so that it couldn't be mixed up >> > with Intel-like segment addressing. >> >> > (And I myself would like to avoid comma and dot, because their use in >> > decimal numbers is already reverse in USA and Germany. That produces >> > big trouble enough, and I wouldn't like to cause such crap again with >> > hex numbers.) >> >> Yes, there does exist a very nice international standard for this >> purpose, and I suggest we adopt it posthaste! >> >> Cheap-ass A3000 memory map: >> >> $_ff01_0000 - $_ffff_ffff Reserved > >Yuck! > >Why not use spaces? Many debuggers and such allow them. >I understand that underscores are easier to parse, but it looks awfull. > >ff01 0000 ff ab cc e1 ..... NOOOOOO! PLEASE, no spaces! See, for me (plus many people here) a space is a separator, we expect that something really different follows (you know, we write nouns together, like "Computerliteratur"). And here we must strongly separate one hex number from the other. It happens very often that you have two numbers directly following each other, just separated by a space as a normal word. (Also mixed with decimal numbers that are not preced by a $.) It would generate much confusion, if there also were spaces inside one of these numbers. So, for me the underscore doesn't look really nice, but it is functional. And if it is already standardized, why not join such a standard. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk