mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (05/08/91)
In article <1991May7.232954.3789@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > In article <1991May07.224440.2764@ariel.unm.edu> kholland@hydra.unm.edu (Kiernan Holland) writes: >>Those darn a**holes, I hate commodore forever now. >>I saw the deal too, about the VIC 20, CBM 64, Amiga 1000/2000/3000 >>upgrade deal. Shoot, I bought my Amiga 3000 (16/50) after selling >>my amiga 2000 off to some blood sucker. On student deal I got >>the piece of sh*t. And that is exactly what it is, 2.0 is a gas, >>only 10% of the software I have works with it. The acceleration >>isn't all that noticeable (unless you use 2.0). The hard drive is alright, >>and pretty fast but where the f*ck is that 68040 upgrade. >>Fellow student deal buyers, Commodore is screwing us. >>Screwing the general public too. The worse part about the deal (from >>a once optimistic view-point now turned evil) is that you get to keep >>your old computer. This is one outrageously funny deal, they are even >>offering this crap to VIC 20 users. I wonder if the deal includes >>the multi-scan (cost me 600 dollars). I'm buying a NeXT or IBM 486. >>To hell with you Commodore. And I know your employees and lines are on these >>networks. If I could sue you I would. > > > Thanks for the insightful, vague commentary. Now, > everyone who agrees with Kiernan please follow up and let us > know? <I love the deafening silence 8> > > -- Ethan > > "Brain! Brain! What is Brain?" He does point out some valid concerns. What would I be giving up by upgrading to the 3000? I heard something about new 3000s coming along with 1.3 ROMs in addition to 2.0 ROMS, but there are a lot of things (mostly games) that won't work at all with the 68030 chip. Also, the 3000 isn't as expandable as a 2000. I was thinking of upgrading to a system that would let me use an AT bridgeboard and VGA card, but if I only have two slots, I'm probably not going to be able to add on a video board, since the AT bridge takes up two slots, am I? And what about that 5.25" drive? Where does it go? Will I be able to use my 3.5" drive as an MS-DOS floppy drive? And what about floppy drives? The power up ad I saw in the June '91 AmigaWorld shows a 3000 with only one internal floppy drive slot, but the June '90 AmigaWorld cover shows a 3000 with two slots. What gives?? In all, there's a lot of power to be had, but I can't see myself using the same box for three or four years like I have with my 500 if I'm not going to be able to expand cleanly. Not for the kind of money I'd have to lay out. MX8@VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (05/09/91)
In article <1991May8.145840.4599@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: > > He does point out some valid concerns. What would I be giving up by >upgrading to the 3000? I heard something about new 3000s coming along with 1.3 >ROMs in addition to 2.0 ROMS, but there are a lot of things (mostly games) >that won't work at all with the 68030 chip. Also, the 3000 isn't as expandable >as a 2000. I was thinking of upgrading to a system that would let me use an >AT bridgeboard and VGA card, but if I only have two slots, I'm probably not >going to be able to add on a video board, since the AT bridge takes up two >slots, am I? And what about that 5.25" drive? Where does it go? Will I be >able to use my 3.5" drive as an MS-DOS floppy drive? None of those things were promised him. He either knew what he was getting, or should of known. Nothing there is a surprise. He said that only 10% of his software works. It sound to ME like he has mainly 2+ year old games. Success rates with today's games are over 50% from what I've seen and with commercial applications it is all but 100%. So either he was lying about his 10% figure, or he has very old and outdated programs. In the latter case he has no right to complain. Certainly no right to be upset at Commodore or to want to sue. Basically, he chose to buy the computer. Nothing was hidden from him. You can hook up a bridgeboard, but the disk drive has to be connected externally. > And what about floppy drives? The power up ad I saw in the June >'91 AmigaWorld shows a 3000 with only one internal floppy drive slot, but the >June '90 AmigaWorld cover shows a 3000 with two slots. What gives?? > There is a removable faceplate to the right of the disk drive that exposes the third drive bay. > In all, there's a lot of power to be had, but I can't see myself >using the same box for three or four years like I have with my 500 if I'm not >going to be able to expand cleanly. Not for the kind of money I'd have to lay >out. > If you need more expansion than the A3000 can provide, which I can only foresee happening if you need a bridgeboard considering there are 5 available slots and it goes up to 18MB of RAM without a card, then don't buy one! Either get a 2500 or wait for the 3000T. It is your choice. Certainly no one is lying to you or doing ANYTHING that gives you a right to complain. What Kiernan did was just plain dumb and he won't get any clear support from anyone. Certainly not when you consider the ridiculous language he used. > MX8@VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU > -- Ethan "Brain! Brain! What is Brain?"
ps3g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Patrick Jason Soo Hoo) (05/09/91)
> He said that only 10% of his software works. It sounds > to ME like he has mainly 2+ year old games. Success rates with > today's games are over 50% from what I've seen and with > commercial applications it is all but 100% > So either he was lying about his 10% figure, or he has > very old and outdated programs. In the latter case he has no > right to complain. Certainly no right to be upset at Commodore or > to want to sue. You mean to say that we should perform a complete rotation of our software libraries every TWO YEARS?? That we should invest how many hundreds to thousands of dollars in a two-year sinkhole?? And that it shouldn't be a cause for complain?? That's absurd, at best. > If you need more expansion than the A3000 can provide, > which I can only foresee happening if you need a bridgeboard Can the 3000 take a Toaster? > What Kiernan did was just plain dumb and he won't get any clear > support from anyone. Certainly not when you consider the > ridiculous language he used. I certainly support his right to be angry. What I find a little unsettling is the zealousness with which many amiga users will defend Commodore's name to the death! (myself included, much of the time :) ) But to attack another amiga user's intelligence and integrity just because he COMPLAINED about the product is RIDICULOUS!!! Customer feedback should be one of, if not THE most important input lines to ANY manufacturer, especially ones in positions like Commodore (need to expand)! I'm sure Kiernan appreciates the post-facto advice, but instead of defecating on him, maybe you can give him advice on how to deal with his non-old-program-running A3000? pat
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (05/09/91)
In article <Ac_CwG200WB7ACRnk3@andrew.cmu.edu> ps3g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Patrick Jason Soo Hoo) writes: >> He said that only 10% of his software works. It sounds >> to ME like he has mainly 2+ year old games. Success rates with >> today's games are over 50% from what I've seen and with >> commercial applications it is all but 100% >> So either he was lying about his 10% figure, or he has >> very old and outdated programs. In the latter case he has no >> right to complain. Certainly no right to be upset at Commodore or >> to want to sue. > > You mean to say that we should perform a complete rotation of our >software libraries every TWO YEARS?? That we should invest how many hundreds >to thousands of dollars in a two-year sinkhole?? And that it shouldn't be a >cause for complain?? That's absurd, at best. > I didn't say that everyone should spend the money to keep their applications software up-to-date (usually about $20-$40 per year per software product). I simply said that if you don't invest in those updates you don't really have the right to complain when it breaks. Most of the failures are the fault of the programmers of the application. BLAME THEM. Not Commodore. CBM can't just sit back and let the world go by without improving their software simply because their are bad programmers. I know of NO programs which can't be updated to work on an A3000. And most never needed an upgrade. >> If you need more expansion than the A3000 can provide, >> which I can only foresee happening if you need a bridgeboard > > Can the 3000 take a Toaster? > With some modifications, yes. But I don't recommend it, get an A2500. What's your point? The Toaster problem has nothing to do with expandability, but incompatibility. Which again, BTW, was NewTek's fault. Not that they necessarily did something wrong. They made a calculated decision which they new might have negative repercussions. They made the card taller than CBM's specs and for some wierd reason it won't work with the new Denise, and I am AFRAID to find out what stuff they were doing to cause THAT problem. >> What Kiernan did was just plain dumb and he won't get any clear >> support from anyone. Certainly not when you consider the >> ridiculous language he used. > > I certainly support his right to be angry. What I find a little unsettling >is the zealousness with which many amiga users will defend Commodore's >name to the death! (myself included, much of the time :) ) But to attack >another amiga user's intelligence and integrity just because he COMPLAINED >about the product is RIDICULOUS!!! Customer feedback should be one of, if >not THE most important input lines to ANY manufacturer, especially ones in >positions like Commodore (need to expand)! > > I'm sure Kiernan appreciates the post-facto advice, but instead of >defecating on him, maybe you can give him advice on how to deal with his >non-old-program-running A3000? > >pat If he had posted something like "I'm having problems with my A3000. I can't get it to work with many of my programs ... Commodore: I feel ripped off," I would've sympathized and tried to give advice. He however trashed the machine totally, trashed the OS totally, gave no sign that he felt there was any redeeming value to the system, and said that he'd sue CBM if he could, not giving any reason why he should be able to sue CBM. When people talk like that they don't expect an answer and have no interest in discussing things. He was angry and wanted to vent his anger on Commodore. Reread his post and tell me if you still think he deserves a dignified response. And I certainly defend a person's right to complain about a product. Practically everything works if you use 1.3 except games which have problems with the 68030. Those programs would all fail on a 2500 too, unless you booted down into a 68000. It isn't Commodore's fault that the applications don't follow the rules. The only other alternative is for Commodore to shut down all R&D and give up. Sure he should be angry, but not at Commodore, at the software developer that screwed him. And I do question his judgement and rationality. That post was definitely not from a rational perspective. If he listened to what other Amiga users had to say about the A3000, he'd realize that almost no one else has had as many problems as he does. My A3000 has no problems running practically anything under 2.0. And Xoper was always buggy. 8-) -- Ethan "Brain! Brain! What is Brain?"
monty@sagpd1 (05/10/91)
In article <1991May8.145840.4599@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: > > He does point out some valid concerns. What would I be giving up by >upgrading to the 3000? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ With the current upgrade offer you would give up a piece of paper and a serial number. The way I see it everytime C= makes one of these offers that NO OTHER COMPUTER MANUFACTURER makes, people Bi%$h. Monty Saine
FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) (05/10/91)
In article 16152.3.2843.19 - 5/8/91 mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: #In article <1991May7.232954.3789@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, #es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: #> In article <1991May07.224440.2764@ariel.unm.edu> kholland@hydra.unm.edu #> (Kiernan Holland) writes: #> #>> Those darn a**holes, I hate commodore forever now. #>> ********** deleted to save bandwidth - you remember what went here ********* * #>> #>> networks. If I could sue you I would. #> #> #> Thanks for the insightful, vague commentary. Now, #> everyone who agrees with Kiernan please follow up and let us #> know? <I love the deafening silence 8> #> #> -- Ethan #> #> "Brain! Brain! What is Brain?" # # He does point out some valid concerns. What would I be giving up by #upgrading to the 3000?.... **** A valid question amid lots of FEAR and DOUBT about expansion room ***** # In all, there's a lot of power to be had, but I can't see myself #using the same box for three or four years like I have with my 500 if I'm not #going to be able to expand cleanly. Not for the kind of money I'd have to lay #out. # # MX8@VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU *** Basically you want it all. Top of the line electronics in a big box with room to add peripherals. Sounds like you want an A3000-T. They made it for people like you. When you get one, please be sure to let us all know how much you like it. And praise CBM engineering for bringing Amiga power to you 'your way'. [ only 1/2 :-) ] Dana Bourgeois @ cup.portal.com
mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (05/11/91)
In article <1991May9.195552.10855@sagpd1>, monty@sagpd1 writes: > In article <1991May8.145840.4599@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >> >> He does point out some valid concerns. What would I be giving up by >>upgrading to the 3000? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > With the current upgrade offer you would give up a piece of paper > and a serial number. > > The way I see it everytime C= makes one of these offers that > NO OTHER COMPUTER MANUFACTURER makes, people Bi%$h. > > Monty Saine I wasn't complaining about the deal per se, but about what I perceived to be potential compatability problems with the 3000. These have been addressed reasonably well in preceding messages.. Incidentally, do any of you know whether or nor the 5.25" drive that comes with the bridgeboards will fit in the drive bays provided by the 3000? Also, will bridgeboards use internal 3.5" amiga drives as 720K floppies?
monty@sagpd1 (05/13/91)
In article <1991May10.151719.4667@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: > Incidentally, do any of you know whether or nor the 5.25" drive that >comes with the bridgeboards will fit in the drive bays provided by the 3000? It will NOT fit anywhere in an A3000! External case required for any 5 1/4 device. Monty Saine
drysdale@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Drysdale) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May10.151719.4667@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >In article <1991May9.195552.10855@sagpd1>, >monty@sagpd1 writes: >> In article <1991May8.145840.4599@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> mx8@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >>> >>> He does point out some valid concerns. What would I be giving up by >>>upgrading to the 3000? >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> With the current upgrade offer you would give up a piece of paper >> and a serial number. >> >> The way I see it everytime C= makes one of these offers that >> NO OTHER COMPUTER MANUFACTURER makes, people Bi%$h. >> >> Monty Saine > > I wasn't complaining about the deal per se, but about what I perceived >to be potential compatability problems with the 3000. These have been >addressed reasonably well in preceding messages.. > > Incidentally, do any of you know whether or nor the 5.25" drive that >comes with the bridgeboards will fit in the drive bays provided by the 3000? the 3000 has no space for a 5.25" drive. i have heard (i'm an engineer, not a sales guy - check with your dealer) that the bridgeboards are available without floppy drives (ie, you can use whatever fits in your machine). > Also, will bridgeboards use internal 3.5" amiga drives as 720K >floppies? no. the bridgeboard cannot share the amiga's floppy drive (there's something called Bridge Drive Commander that i've seen advertised that's supposed to let you do just that). --Scotty -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Scott Drysdale Software Engineer Commodore Amiga Inc. UUCP {allegra|burdvax|rutgers|ihnp4}!cbmvax!drysdale PHONE - yes. "Have you hugged your hog today?" =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=