gpotts@oregon.uoregon.edu (05/12/91)
I have a new A3000 with a Syquest removable HD attached to the external SCSI port. With the Syquest connected but powered down, the Amiga can't find its internal HD to load Kickstart from -- I get the 2.0/1.3 requester screen with the HD buttons ghosted. With the Syquest connected and powered up but no cartridge installed, I don't even get that screen; the HD access lights on both the 3000 and the Syquest just pulse on and off. Only if I have the Syquest powered up and a cartridge mounted (it doesn't need to be an AmigaDOS formatted cartridge), will the Amiga boot properly. Why is this and is there any way to fix it (other than unplugging the Syquest)?
ipolyi@alamo.Berkeley.EDU (Harold H. Ipolyi 486-6444) (05/13/91)
In article <21010.282c6b6a@oregon.uoregon.edu>, gpotts@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: |> |> |> I have a new A3000 with a Syquest removable HD attached to the external |> SCSI port. With the Syquest connected but powered down, the Amiga can't |> find its internal HD to load Kickstart from -- I get the 2.0/1.3 |> requester screen with the HD buttons ghosted. With the Syquest connected |> and powered up but no cartridge installed, I don't even get that screen; |> the HD access lights on both the 3000 and the Syquest just pulse on and |> off. Only if I have the Syquest powered up and a cartridge mounted (it |> doesn't need to be an AmigaDOS formatted cartridge), will the Amiga boot |> properly. Why is this and is there any way to fix it (other than unplugging |> the Syquest)? This is not a Syquest specific problem. I have a Syquest 44 and a Seagate 277 in an external box, and I also have to disconnect the cable when leaving them powered off. But it beats waiting for them to load up. I am currently only using them as backup devices, which serves my purpose. Harold
gpotts@oregon.uoregon.edu (05/14/91)
In article <1991May13.115455@alamo.Berkeley.EDU>, ipolyi@alamo.Berkeley.EDU (Harold H. Ipolyi 486-6444) writes: > In article <21010.282c6b6a@oregon.uoregon.edu>, > gpotts@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: > |> > |> > |> I have a new A3000 with a Syquest removable HD attached to the external > |> SCSI port. With the Syquest connected but powered down, the Amiga can't > |> find its internal HD to load Kickstart from -- I get the 2.0/1.3 > |> requester screen with the HD buttons ghosted. With the Syquest connected > |> and powered up but no cartridge installed, I don't even get that screen; > |> the HD access lights on both the 3000 and the Syquest just pulse on and > |> off. Only if I have the Syquest powered up and a cartridge mounted (it > |> doesn't need to be an AmigaDOS formatted cartridge), will the Amiga boot > |> properly. Why is this and is there any way to fix it (other than unplugging > |> the Syquest)? > > This is not a Syquest specific problem. I have a Syquest 44 and a > Seagate 277 > in an external box, and I also have to disconnect the cable when leaving > them > powered off. But it beats waiting for them to load up. I am currently > only > using them as backup devices, which serves my purpose. Harold Well, this suonds to me like a serious shortcoming of the A3000's SCSI manager. The Mac's SCSI manager, for all its problems, can at least go out on the external buss, find what is there and powered up, mount what is flagged as mountable, and ignore the rest, so we know it can be done. Reaching behind the chassis to unplug the SCSI connector when I don't want to use the external devices is not an elegant solution. This is one of those things that makes a machine irritating to use. I hope this is addressed in a future version of the SCSI manager -- removable media are becoming more and more common. On a related note -- is it possible to se a HD partition to SKIP with the HDToolbox? With my Supra SCSI controller I was able to set a partition to BOOT, MOUNT, or SKIP and thus create partitions that did not mount at boot time but that could be mounted later with the AmigaDOS "Mount" command. I found this useful for creating hidden partitions on a drive (AMAX partitions for example). With the HDToolbox, I only see a boot flag -- you either set a partition as bootable or not -- but no way to make a partition not auto- mount. Any solutions? --geoff
johnhlee@CS.Cornell.EDU (John H. Lee) (05/15/91)
In article <21017.282eec91@oregon.uoregon.edu> gpotts@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: >In article <1991May13.115455@alamo.Berkeley.EDU>, ipolyi@alamo.Berkeley.EDU (Harold H. Ipolyi 486-6444) writes: >>In article <21010.282c6b6a@oregon.uoregon.edu>, >>gpotts@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: >>|> I have a new A3000 with a Syquest removable HD attached to the external >>|> SCSI port. With the Syquest connected but powered down, the Amiga can't >>|> find its internal HD to load Kickstart from -- I get the 2.0/1.3 >>|> requester screen with the HD buttons ghosted. With the Syquest connected >>|> and powered up but no cartridge installed, I don't even get that screen; >>|> the HD access lights on both the 3000 and the Syquest just pulse on and >>|> off. Only if I have the Syquest powered up and a cartridge mounted (it >>|> doesn't need to be an AmigaDOS formatted cartridge), will the Amiga boot >>|> properly. Why is this and is there any way to fix it (other than unplugging >>|> the Syquest)? >>This is not a Syquest specific problem. I have a Syquest 44 and a Seagate 277 >>in an external box, and I also have to disconnect the cable when leaving >>them >>powered off. But it beats waiting for them to load up. I am currently only >>using them as backup devices, which serves my purpose. Harold >Well, this suonds to me like a serious shortcoming of the A3000's SCSI >manager. The Mac's SCSI manager, for all its problems, can at least go >out on the external buss, find what is there and powered up, mount what >is flagged as mountable, and ignore the rest, so we know it can be done. >Reaching behind the chassis to unplug the SCSI connector when I don't >want to use the external devices is not an elegant solution. This is one >of those things that makes a machine irritating to use. I hope this is >addressed in a future version of the SCSI manager -- removable media are >becoming more and more common. SCSI devices usually cannot be left on the bus when powered off if they are on the ends of the bus and have terminators installed. Although the single- ended 50-pin SCSI cable has a "Terminator Power" line, devices might power their own terminators themselves, and Macintosh-style DB25 SCSI cables don't have this power line at all. Unpowered terminators pull down the entire SCSI bus and causes everything to lock up. This is not a A3000 controller problem. In my own setup, my tape drive sits in an external box. Since I don't need nor want the drive powered up all the time, the drive is unterminated. The terminators at the ends of the bus are elsewhere and have separate power. I can leave the drive off and boot-up. Later, I can turn the drive on, mount BTNTape and start my backup. I'm not sure why you can't boot with the Syquest powered up empty. I'm guessing, but it sounds like the SCSI driver is repeatedly polling the Syquest and the Syquest is responding "not ready" instead of "no media loaded." The SCSI driver is waiting forever for the drive to spin-up. I think you'll have to query Commodore Software Engineering for this one. >On a related note -- is it possible to se a HD partition to SKIP with the >HDToolbox? With my Supra SCSI controller I was able to set a partition to >BOOT, MOUNT, or SKIP and thus create partitions that did not mount at boot >time but that could be mounted later with the AmigaDOS "Mount" command. I >found this useful for creating hidden partitions on a drive (AMAX partitions >for example). With the HDToolbox, I only see a boot flag -- you either set >a partition as bootable or not -- but no way to make a partition not auto- >mount. Any solutions? As documented in my A3000 manual, _Using The System Software_, under the section for HDToolbox, set the partition's file system to "Reserved". I have my AMaxII partition set this way. Under WB 2.0, the partition does get mounted so that AMax can access it, but it doesn't show up on the WB nor under Info--only as a mounted device in Assign. It does show up on 1.3 WB, however. You should be able to disable automounting for the partition using HDToolbox as well. I think it's under the Advanced Options in the Change Partition window. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The DiskDoctor threatens the crew! Next time on AmigaDos: The Next Generation. John Lee Internet: johnhlee@cs.cornell.edu The above opinions are those of the user, and not of this machine.
bryan@cs.utexas.edu (Bryan Bayerdorffer @ Wit's End) (05/15/91)
In article <1991May14.221337.1726@cs.cornell.edu> johnhlee@cs.cornell.edu (John H. Lee) writes:
=-I'm not sure why you can't boot with the Syquest powered up empty. I'm
=-guessing, but it sounds like the SCSI driver is repeatedly polling the
=-Syquest and the Syquest is responding "not ready" instead of "no media
=-loaded." The SCSI driver is waiting forever for the drive to spin-up.
=-I think you'll have to query Commodore Software Engineering for this one.
=-
I might mention --- ok, I *will mention* --- that my HardFrame controller boots
just fine from the main (Q80S) drive when no cartridge is installed in my
Syquest, which is located physically in the middle of the SCSI bus, and, being
internally mounted, is continuously powered. The HardFrame polls the Syquest
for a while at boot time and then gives up. This seems a preferable way of
handling unresponsive devices.
I don't know how the HardFrame would behave if the Syquest were powered off at
boot time, but I suspect it would be the same.metahawk@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (Wayne G Rigby) (05/15/91)
The problems mentioned (and fixes) in this thread are all valid for the SCSI
system. I've used several Mac's with various SCSI drives attached. Unless
their terminators are properly setup, many problems are seen. The most
common one being not able to boot up the computer while one of the SCSI
devices is powered off. Once the terminators are setup correctly, this is
possible though. One of my room mates had an SE with a SCSI SyQuest. His
computer wouldn't boot with the drive off (it would boot empty off floppy or
internal HD); once he removed the internal terminator, everything worked
fine (would boot when drive was powered down, and would recognize drive if
it was powered up after boot up).
Wayne Rigby
Computer and Systems Engineer (in training)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
metahawk@rpi.edudaveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (05/15/91)
In article <21017.282eec91@oregon.uoregon.edu> gpotts@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: >> This is not a Syquest specific problem. I have a Syquest 44 and a Seagate >> 277 in an external box, and I also have to disconnect the cable when leaving >> them powered off. >Well, this suonds to me like a serious shortcoming of the A3000's SCSI >manager. The Mac's SCSI manager, for all its problems, can at least go >out on the external buss, find what is there and powered up, mount what >is flagged as mountable, and ignore the rest, so we know it can be done. There's no guarantee that any kind of bus/software combination can deal with things left turned off but still connected. Most devices have a totally unknown characteristic when left powered down. You can actually have a powered down bus buffer kind of turn on when power from the bus reached its inputs. The likely outcome of such a condition is that the whole bus gets dragged down. This has nothing to do with any problems that may or may not be seen in a system with fully powered up devices. If such a removable media device is powered up but not fitted with a disk, there's no hardware reason any system software shouldn't be able to deal with it. >On a related note -- is it possible to se a HD partition to SKIP with the >HDToolbox? With my Supra SCSI controller I was able to set a partition to >BOOT, MOUNT, or SKIP and thus create partitions that did not mount at boot >time but that could be mounted later with the AmigaDOS "Mount" command. While I have never tried it, HDToolBox does let you designate partitions as automounted or not, which I guess is the same thing you're talking about here. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M.
rick@tmi.com (05/24/91)
In article <1991May13.115455@alamo.Berkeley.EDU>, ipolyi@alamo.Berkeley.EDU (Harold H. Ipolyi 486-6444) writes: > In article <21010.282c6b6a@oregon.uoregon.edu>, > gpotts@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: > |> > |> > |> I have a new A3000 with a Syquest removable HD attached to the external > |> SCSI port. With the Syquest connected but powered down, the Amiga can't > |> find its internal HD to load Kickstart from -- I get the 2.0/1.3 > |> requester screen with the HD buttons ghosted. [stuff deleted...] > > This is not a Syquest specific problem. I have a Syquest 44 and a Seagate 277 > in an external box, and I also have to disconnect the cable when leaving them > powered off. But it beats waiting for them to load up. I am currently only > using them as backup devices, which serves my purpose. Harold Odds are that you have a termination problem. The system should boot with the Syquest powered up, but no disk mounted. If it doesn't, make sure you have the drive terminated properly. I use a Wangtek 5150S 150MB SCSI tape drive on the external port and a Conner CP3200 on the internal port. If I leave the Wangtek plugged in but off, I get the KickStart screens. If it's powered up, but no cartridge, the system boots fine. The drive has its terminators installed. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. If under 18, get your parent's permission. 8-) -- .--------------------------------------------------------------------------. |[- O] Rick Stevens | | ? EMail: uunet!zardoz!tmiuv0!rick -or- uunet!zardoz!xyclone!sysop | | V (rick@tmi.com) (sysop@ssssc.com) | | CIS: 75006,1355 (75006.1355@compuserve.com from Internet) | | | | "If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid!" | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'