seebs@thor.acc.stolaf.edu (The Laughing Prophet) (06/11/91)
In article <1991Jun9.181849.27338@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Kriston J. Rehberg) writes: [...] >Productivity is great. It's real VGA, and, yes, I use it on a >day-to-day basis on an Amiga 3000. The screen is much more solid than a >flicker-fixed display, and, in my opinion, is a good alternative mode >for people who want 640*480 but don't want to waste money on those >quirky flicker fixers. ???? Why would you use Productivity on the 3k? I have used it occasionally, but it only lets me use (in effect) about 64 colors, i.e. 4 shades of red, 4 of blue, et. al... And, of course, I can get perfectly flicker free output, with no flicker-fixer, off the '3k, because the flicker-fixer is *built* *in*. So, what are you seeing in productivity that I'm not? Also, what do you mean by 'vga'? I've never seen a vga set up, but I remember being told they had lots of colors - which productivity doesn't, so far as I can tell. >Good day! Same to you. >Kris --SeebS-- -- Peter Seebach - The Laughing Prophet | | Anonymous Posting Here! I don't speak for St. Olaf, St. Olaf | | seebs@acc.stolaf.edu doesn't speak for me, and Marcel Marceau | | "Forgive them Father, for they speaks for no one. | | do not get the joke..."
consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Kriston J. Rehberg) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun11.035833.23743@news.stolaf.edu>, seebs@thor.acc.stolaf.edu (The Laughing Prophet) writes: |>???? Why would you use Productivity on the 3k? I have used it occasionally, |>but it only lets me use (in effect) about 64 colors, i.e. 4 shades of red, |>4 of blue, et. al... And, of course, I can get perfectly flicker free output, |>with no flicker-fixer, off the '3k, because the flicker-fixer is *built* *in*. |>So, what are you seeing in productivity that I'm not? I am seeing smooth sprite movement and flickerless screen updates in Productivity. I'm sure you've seen objects like the mouse pointer become all fuzzy and shakey when you move it up and down, and when things move around on the screen you can see the scan update fields overlap each other. But it is nice for lots of colors, but I can't use it for very long when doing serious work. Especially when I type in interlaced mode. When a character appears on the screen, you can actually see it being created: fuzzy first, then (when the second vertical refresh comes in) the rest of it. It's kinda like watching those older near-letter-quality printers print, one pass at a time, putting together a final product. |>Also, what do you mean by 'vga'? I've never seen a vga set up, but I remember |>being told they had lots of colors - which productivity doesn't, so far as I |>can tell. I go by the horizontal frequency rates. Colors are not really a good measure because there are monochrome 640*400 systems. For most people, anything over 31 KHz horizontal is commonly called VGA (although the vertical sync is different in some modes). There is VGA (640*400), Super VGA (800*600) and HiRes VGA (1024*768). If you noticed, these includes the flicker fixers. I dunno. VGA isn't really a 'standard' anyway these days. |>Peter Seebach - The Laughing Prophet | | Anonymous Posting Here! Kris +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Kriston J. Rehberg, SUNY-Binghamton Computer Services | | consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu | | #include <stddiscl.h> | +----------- Only Amiga makes it possible! ------- ;-b -+
davewt@NCoast.ORG (David Wright) (06/13/91)
In article <1991Jun11.184413.10125@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Kriston J. Rehberg) writes: >In article <1991Jun11.035833.23743@news.stolaf.edu>, >seebs@thor.acc.stolaf.edu (The Laughing Prophet) writes: >|>So, what are you seeing in productivity that I'm not? > >I am seeing smooth sprite movement and flickerless screen updates in >Productivity. I'm sure you've seen objects like the mouse pointer >become all fuzzy and shakey when you move it up and down, and when >things move around on the screen you can see the scan update fields >overlap each other. ?????????? > >But it is nice for lots of colors, but I can't use it for very long when >doing serious work. Especially when I type in interlaced mode. When a >character appears on the screen, you can actually see it being created: >fuzzy first, then (when the second vertical refresh comes in) the rest >of it. It's kinda like watching those older near-letter-quality >printers print, one pass at a time, putting together a final product. What??? WHAT ELSE ARE YOU RUNNING THAT IS SUCKING UP GAWDAWFULL AMOUNTS OF CPU TIME???? I have NEVER EVERE EVERE (that's not in my entire life) sen the kind of effects that you are describing on ANY Amiga when using interlaced mode (with or without some kind of flicker fixer). The way you talk it takes a seccond or so for characters to appear. I can open up a full-size Shell window and cat a text file and STILL not see anything that you are describing, and I always have at least 4 other things running at the same time. What do you have, a 16,000 by 16,000 16-color WorkBench opened up with a giant shell window? Dave
consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Kriston J. Rehberg) (06/19/91)
In article <1991Jun13.150555.6140@NCoast.ORG>, davewt@NCoast.ORG |> What??? WHAT ELSE ARE YOU RUNNING THAT IS SUCKING UP GAWDAWFULL AMOUNTS |>OF CPU TIME???? I have NEVER EVERE EVERE (that's not in my entire life) |>sen the kind of effects that you are describing on ANY Amiga when using |>interlaced mode (with or without some kind of flicker fixer). The way you talk |>it takes a seccond or so for characters to appear. I can open up a full-size |>Shell window and cat a text file and STILL not see anything that you |>are describing, and I always have at least 4 other things running at |>the same time. What do you have, a 16,000 by 16,000 16-color WorkBench |>opened up with a giant shell window? Calm down a bit! CPU time has nothing to do with how well the deinterlacer works. No, it's more like a fraction of a second, but noticeable when you move the pointer around. Sit yourself down and see for yourself. The scan problems I see are due to the fact that the interlace mode is updated once every 30 Hz (net, not gross). It just keeps the lines not in the current vertical refresh from disappearing, so we get the illusion that the display is updated every 60 Hz when in reality, one vertical scan draws the odd numbered lines (in the first 30 Hz interval) and the next interval gets the even ones. It's not noticeable unless you are animating something like a mouse pointer, and when you're using 640*400 interlaced mode. When you move your mouse up and down, you can see the effect as it turns into something like venutian blinds - kinda snowy. Of course, it doesn't happen in 640*200 mode because the oddd (unused) lines are just copying what the even lines do. (That's a simple way of looking at how scan-doubling works). Where did you get the idea that it was CPU time or bitplane width? |> Dave -Kris +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Kriston J. Rehberg, Consultant, SUNY-Binghamton Computer Services | | <consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu> or <consp03@BINGVAXA.BITnet> | | #include <stddiscl.h> "Hackito ergo sum" - old Latin proverb | +-------------------------------------------------------------- ;-b --+
s082@brems.ii.uib.no (06/19/91)
Couldn't this problem be circumvented easily by some simple timing? i.e. only changing the picture every 1/30 (1/25 in europe) of a second. This might be a problem with sprites, but for commercial programs (games etc.) there shouldn't be much of a problem, esp with double buffering. Or? Let's see some hires games, eh? -ketil (gamer, lamer)