jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) (07/22/90)
[]
Since there have been a couple of highly biased anti-Seagate, pro-Quantum
postings, I thought that I would give another view. (Naturally, I have
no financial interest in either company.) It is true that there have
been many reports of "stiction" problems with Seagate drives (mostly
among the non-SCSI ST-251 drives.) However, there are a LOT of Seagate
drives out there! Even a 0.01% failure rate would produce a significant
number of complaints on the net about Seagates (I am not implying that
the Seagate drives are super reliable, I am just pointing out the fact
that even if they were, we would still 'hear' a lot about the failures.)
There are not nearly as many Quantums 'out there.' Also, I have heard
a few reports of "stiction" on Quantums also.
I have an 80 Meg Seagate ST-296N. I have had no problems with it yet.
I think it is past its warrantee now. This does NOT mean that you won't
have problems with Seagates. It simply means that the two previous posters
were exaggerating the problems with Seagates. What they also "forgot"
to mention is the fact that the Seagates are generally cheaper than
the Quantums. When you buy cheaper equipment, you should expect lower
quality - but this is not always the case. (e.g. the A2090 hard disk
controller. I bought it from CBM because I foolishly expected that CBM
would produce the controller closest to the SCSI standards. Now they've
had TWO different controller designs since then with NO upgrade path for
the poor slobs who bought early! Now we are hearing rumors that the
newest one still doesn't do everything "right." As always, caveat emptor!
This is NOT really intended to be a flame against CBM, but it was the first
example that I could think of. I love my Amiga, but I am less than pleased
with the A2090 although it has run my two HDs flawlessly for a couple of
years.)
Does anyone out there have any approximate numbers for drives 'out there'
for Seagates vs. Quantums? Just curious...
One poster claimed that Seagate doesn't know anything about 'large' drives.
Well, the largest Quantum that I've heard about is the 105 Meg drive.
Seagate has been making drives that big for some time. (If Quantum makes
bigger drives, excuse my ignorance and ignore this paragraph.)
Conclusion: None. Just get as many facts as you can and then make the
price/performance tradeoff according to your situation.
--
Jim Pritchett
UUCP: texbell.swbt.com!rwsys!caleb!jdp
or texbell.swbt.com!letni!dms3b1!caleb!jdppomeroy@refine.enet.dec.com (Robert Pomeroy) (07/24/90)
In article <9821.AA9821@caleb>, jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes... >One poster claimed that Seagate doesn't know anything about 'large' drives. >Well, the largest Quantum that I've heard about is the 105 Meg drive. [Most of the above message deleted] When I was interviewing at Apollo/HP they showed a 200 meg 3.5" HD, which they said was a Quantum. I had previously never heard of a 200 meg, but I am pretty sure they make a 160 meg. So, Quantum can make big drives. Maybe they don't make a 760 meg drive, but nobody makes a 760 meg 3.5" 1/2 height yet. (I say yet because the technology exists to make 4-800 meg HD's) My personal experience with Seagate is that their drives are built with quality in mind. I have experienced only limited problems with Seagates, even "beating the crap" out of them. My experience with quantum is that they are fast and reliable, but for some reason I far more careful about shocking quantums. To me, there name doesn't carry the same weight when it comes to quality. Bob Pomeroy pomeroy@refine.enet.dec.com (The above is not a flame against either drive. Both are excellent, I have used both and would not pick one over the other for reliability reasons.)
dawill@hubcap.clemson.edu (david williams) (07/24/90)
In article <9821.AA9821@caleb>, jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes: > > [] > > Since there have been a couple of highly biased anti-Seagate, pro-Quantum > postings, I thought that I would give another view. (Naturally, I have > no financial interest in either company.) It is true that there have > been many reports of "stiction" problems with Seagate drives (mostly > among the non-SCSI ST-251 drives.) However, there are a LOT of Seagate > drives out there! Even a 0.01% failure rate would produce a significant > number of complaints on the net about Seagates (I am not implying that > the Seagate drives are super reliable, I am just pointing out the fact > that even if they were, we would still 'hear' a lot about the failures.) > There are not nearly as many Quantums 'out there.' Also, I have heard > a few reports of "stiction" on Quantums also. > > I have an 80 Meg Seagate ST-296N. I have had no problems with it yet. > I think it is past its warrantee now. This does NOT mean that you won't > have problems with Seagates. It simply means that the two previous posters [stuff deleted] > > Jim Pritchett Jim, I hate to say this, but it's gonna getcha. I bought a 296N myself, since my roommate has one that had been operating for about 6 months (at the time). Hummm, I said to myself, maybe these particular drives aren't having the stiction problems. So: I bought one. The first one that arrived was dead. Poor construction on the PC board meant that it wouldn't format. (Though it would do a low-level format, strange.) The next one worked fine, and I was happy... Up to about a week ago, I should say. Last week, the blamed thing wouldn't spin up! Arguuuh! However, I am lucky, since the drive is still under warranty. (It's about 6 months old) So, I went next door to tell my old roommate my woes, and to check his harddrive carefully. I was rather suprised to find him removing the drive from his 2000. "Huh?" said I "What's wrong?" He replied that his drive had just developed stiction problems, and that I better check my drive. TWO OF EM! IN THE SAME WEEK! I *knew* I shouldn't have bought a seagate. So, the moral is: beware if you don't have the data on your 296N backed up! Dave Williams dawill@hubcap.clemson.edu "Huh? What? Could you repeat the question?"
dick@woodwrk.UUCP (Richard H. Wood) (07/24/90)
>In article <13748@shlump.nac.dec.com> pomeroy@refine.enet.dec.com (Robert Pomeroy) writes: > >In article <9821.AA9821@caleb>, jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes... >>One poster claimed that Seagate doesn't know anything about 'large' drives. >>Well, the largest Quantum that I've heard about is the 105 Meg drive. > >[Most of the above message deleted] > >When I was interviewing at Apollo/HP they showed a 200 meg 3.5" HD, which >they said was a Quantum. I had previously never heard of a 200 meg, but I am >pretty sure they make a 160 meg. So, Quantum can make big drives. Maybe they >don't make a 760 meg drive, but nobody makes a 760 meg 3.5" 1/2 height yet. >(I say yet because the technology exists to make 4-800 meg HD's) > Bob, not only does Quantum make 210 MB 3.5" 1/2 height HDs (I've got one!) but HP is referbishing 'em and sellin' 'em --- I assume, to upgrade to even larger capacity drives. Mine works very well and is much quieter than the Seagate ST296N I also have. BTW, I'm running with the A2090a Controller. You _do_ have to "lie" to the that controller, though. It doesn't understand drives with as many surfaces as the Quantum 210MB has. I told it it had two surfaces and increased the total number of "tracks" or "cylinders" to compensate. (As I understand it, SCSI overrides all that junk, anyway, so it really only matters to the AmigaDos format command, anyway. (now wasn't that redundantly repetitive?). ;) ) > Bob Pomeroy > pomeroy@refine.enet.dec.com > >(The above is not a flame against either drive. Both are excellent, I have >used both and would not pick one over the other for reliability reasons.) Ditto here, too. -- ----------------------------- |\ | | | Become an | uunet!digi!woodwrk!dick |/ick |/\|ood | ORGAN DONOR | dwood@digi.lonestar.org ----------------------------- --
gerber@buzzer.enet.dec.com (Robert M. Gerber) (07/25/90)
I have an ST-251 from Seagate (ST506 interface). I have not had any problems in over two years with it. I have left it powered up for two days at the most. I have also done many power cycles in a few minutes while adding memory. I have backed up my drive on a pretty regular schedule. Does this prevent Murphy's Law from killing my drive? Maybe not, however if it does ever die, I know I won't have lost mush work. I have seen (many) other ST251's die with the nospinup problem. I will probably wind up with a quantum and or a SYQUEST for my next drive(s). This is because I want to get an A3000 soon (comes with a QUANTUM of course...), and I think a SYQUEST would provide me with the rest of the disk requirements I might need for a long time. (Providing I get enough cartridges. :-) ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- Robert M. Gerber UUCP: ...!decwrl!oldjon.enet!gerber INET: gerber@oldjon.enet.dec.com Any opinions represented here are definetly not those of my employer. Come to think of it, they may not be mine either!
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (12/06/90)
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >I haven't gotten through to GVP technical support yet (always busy,. hmmm) >Does anyone know if this model (series II 500-HD+) will work on an A1000? Well I got a call back from GVP last night and when asked if it would work on an A1000, the sales guy put me on hold while he checked it out. He came back and said that someone told him that they tried it at a show in Germany and it worked fine. But this sounds a little anecdotal to me, so if anyone out there knows for sure please email me. Also, could someone tell me the bus differences between the A500 and A1000? I know they are turned around 180 degrees, what I want to know is which pins are in different locations or have different voltages (I remember someone mentioning that one pin is 5V on one machine and 12V on the other?). I figure if there is only one or two pins swapped or whatever, I can call back to GVP and Supra and ask them if those pins are used on their drive controllers. Or maybe I can just go into my amiga and do a little wire swapping/trace cutting to make sure of the compatibility. Also, how are the pins numbered on the 500 vs. the 1000? Like this? : (I know they are two rows, on the diagram below I am asking is pin 1 on the rear side of the 500 and the toward the front on the A1000?) back of A500 back of A1000 ______________ ______________ | | | | 1 - | | | |-86 | | | | 86 -|____________| |____________|-1 >-- >John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email >sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. >A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (12/09/90)
In <3931@corpane.UUCP>, sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: > >What I want: A hard drive / memory expansion box that will work on both >the A1000 and the A500. The reason I want it to work on a 500 is that >I plan on getting a 3000 in a year or so and will want to sell this HD. >I figure I can sell a HD for the 500 easier and at a higher resell price >than an A1000 only HD. > >I have looked at two brands so far: The Supra 500XP and the GVP Series II >500-HD+. > >I called Supra and they told me that it would work on an A1000. Does anyone >out there have any advice on this brand? Does anyone know for sure if it >really does work with the A1000? If it works on the A500, it should work on the A1000. It will look a little funny on the machine it wasn't designed for, facing backwards as it will, but that's no biggie. Consider the A590 from CBM while you're at it. >Email please as I figure most other readers of this newsgroup could care less >about this. This question is so common, I figured I'd just post it. -larry -- The only things to survive a nuclear war will be cockroaches and IBM PCs. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
hull@hao.hao.ucar.edu (Howard Hull) (12/09/90)
In article <3933@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >... >Also, could someone tell me the bus differences between the A500 and A1000? >I know they are turned around 180 degrees, what I want to know is which pins >are in different locations or have different voltages (I remember someone >mentioning that one pin is 5V on one machine and 12V on the other?). That was probably me, when I was trying to discuss use of an A B -> C switch on the parallel, serial, and video ports and I didn't really want to say much about the expansion ports then (see ncar reference cited in the header above). What I said was: "It IS true that in going from the A1000 to the A500/A2000 one of the pins on the expansion bus (internal to the A2000 only, external with the A500) is -12V while it was -5V on the A1000. But this is not the case for the DB23 video connector." The only inaccuracy I've discovered with what I said is with respect to the A2000's internal 100 pin ZorroII card slot sockets, the pin in question is -5V like it was on the A1000 rather than -12v as it is on the A500 external expansion plug. So yes, Pin 8 of the A1000 is -5V and pin 8 of the A500 is -12V. However, bear in mind that this is a restricted use pin; Commodore advised those manufacturing hardware for the Amiga that they should not use power from that pin in their designs, BUT that if they were manufacturing expansion bay hardware, they should independently supply power to the pin if cost considerations weren't prohibitive. This advisory was on a page of the A1000 "Schematics and Expansion Specification, June 9, 1986" with the header "Apr 24 21:00 1986 memo.expan Page 1" PRELIMINARY and has no doubt evolved some since then. At the time it was issued, it thus implied that such manufacturers should supply -5V on that pin. Those manufacturers who used the pin, and are expecting -12V there will have hardware in the field that may fail when moved to an A1000 or to an adapter cable/box plugged into an A2000. The A2000 has an 86-pin connector (a socket) designed for coprocessor use; the pinout is much the same as the A1000 expansion pinout, but some signals are buffered versions of the 100-pin Zorro II card slots. CBM warns that the differences, while affecting only a few lines, can be different in ways critical for those devices which utilize those few signals... In addition, for your information, the 86 pin and 100 contact connectors do have the same pinout with the exception of pin 8, and with the exception that there are additional signals on the A2000 and it is a socket rather than a card-edge finger extension, which would be considered to be termed a "plug." The additional contacts are listed below: Pin Used as Pin Used as 87 a grounded bus line 88 a grounded bus line 89 a grounded bus line 90 a grounded bus line 91 a grounded bus line 92 7MHz 93 DOE (1K pullup to +5V) 94 _BUSRST (1K pullup to +5V) 95 _GBG (1K gnd via 1000pf) 96 _EINT1 97 a bus line (no name) 98 a bus line (no name) 99 a grounded bus line 100 a grounded bus line Again, you must have knowledge concerning subtle timing and buffering differences between ZorroI and ZorroII, and you must take into consideration the fact that ZorroII slots are intended for autoconfiguring cards. Oh, and yes I should define a few of the above tags: BUSRST - guess what, bus reset; GBG is Generic Bus Grant (related to but not the same as GB) DOE is Data Output Enable, and EINT1 is Encoded Interrupt Line 1 (there are as well some other encoded interrupt lines available for the priority encoder to present to the processor, which then sees it more directly along with all the non-encoded interrupt lines). >I figure if there is only one or two pins swapped or whatever, I can call >back to GVP and Supra and ask them if those pins are used on their drive >controllers. Yes, do give them a call! >Or maybe I can just go into my amiga and do a little wire >swapping/trace cutting to make sure of the compatibility. Yeeeeek. When you're done, you're no longer compatible with whatever you started with. Don't ever forget it and then sell your machine... :-| >Also, how are the pins numbered on the 500 vs. the 1000? Like this? : >(I know they are two rows, on the diagram below I am asking is pin 1 >on the rear side of the 500 and the toward the front on the A1000?) [Diagram omitted] Yes, as you showed it. Odd numbered pins are on the top and even numbered pins are on the bottom (in either case), and pin 1 is to the left when you look at it straight on. The A500 plug is higher above the table, though, so you may have to put an A1000 interface on top of a stack of Walt Disney Mickey Mouse comic books (thus securing a valuable investment) to get it connected in a supported fashion, and, of course, all of the A1000 add-on's front panel lights will a face wall that's behind the A500 (so put your desk in front of a full-length mirror...). Disclaimers: I do have an A1000. I do not own or have access to an A500. I neither work for nor am I in any way associated with CBM. The agency I do work for has a hard enough time figuring out what I do, never matter who ought to be responsible for it. >sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. >A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash An old Nash is what a Corvette is always trapped behind - Mr. Rambler Howard Hull hull@ncar.ucar.edu
sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Napalm) (03/18/91)
Boy do I have a dilemna. I want to get a Hard Drive for my A500P, I figure Ill get a GVP model but when the bodega bay came out, that made my life alot more difficult. Are the HD controllers for the 500 as fast or faster than the 2000 hard drive controllers? are they a little or alot slower? Another question. I saw a picture of the CDTV unit for the amiga 500 that should be released in 100 years <1/2 :-D > and I wondered if anyone knows if commodore would allow a hard drive to be connected at the same time as the CDTV unit <they would both need that expansion port to the left of the keyboard on the 500> Thanks for the help in advance.
cdibenedetto@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (06/20/91)
I'm about to purchase a hard dirve and would like to know what is the best type of setup. The size I'm looking for is from 40 to 60 Mb. Also, cost is a MAJOR factor. What are your suggestions? ---- Cesi DiBenedetto ai622@cleveland.freenet.edu
darrell@comspec.uucp (Darrell Grainger) (06/22/91)
In article <5454.285ff263@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> cdibenedetto@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes: > > I'm about to purchase a hard dirve and would like to know what is the >best type of setup. The size I'm looking for is from 40 to 60 Mb. Also, cost >is a MAJOR factor. What are your suggestions? My first suggestion is to state which Amiga you own. The hard drives I would recommend for an Amiga 2000 would not be the same as the hard drive I would recommend for the Amiga 500. Also, what do you have in your system? If you have the BridgeBoard you should not be looking into an internal 5.25" hard drive (the 5.25" floppy takes the only place an internal 5.25" would go). Also, are you planning on getting an accelerator? How many free slots do you have in your Amiga (if it is a 2000)? >---- >Cesi DiBenedetto >ai622@cleveland.freenet.edu -- Darrell Grainger % Comspec Communications Inc., Toronto, Ontario, Canada darrell@comspec % Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own. (416) 617-1475 % (416) 633-5605 (416)785-3553