perkins@neptune.iex.com (Bill Perkins) (11/27/90)
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Hi! I have received a LOT of mail about my "investigation" into speaker-
land, so I'm going to go ahead and re-post this to this newsgroup (it
was originally posted to rec.audio only...)
Anyway, here's the story as it was first told....!
Happy sounds,
Bill Perkins
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Well, another of those "I did it" stories. And, I am happy with my
new speakers (with (could you guess), a few reservations).
Although I read this newsgroup regularly, I have not, until now, submitted
an article. I love this forum, though, and I want to thank those of you
that have spoken up about what we all love: fidelity (in the sense of audio,
anyway).
The people who have commented here have made my search for new speakers
much more focused and much more efficient. I have been following this
newsgroup for almost a year -- and you should see the size of my Rec.audio
file! -- and it's great to draw on the wealth of the world when you're
making a decision like this!
Anyway, I bought a pair of Thiel CS 2's. I noticed that there weren't
a whole lot of comments about these, but from what there were, I decided
to check them out.
Before I go in depth here, a little info:
- I am not (though my friends think I am) an audiophile.
- I have a Denon DRA-75RV receiver (75 WPC, Audio/Visual; yeah, I like it).
- My previous speakers were 12-year old Cerwin-Vega 3-way's -- and they
*still* sound pretty damned good (nanh-nanh-na-nanh-nah. I am serious,
by the way. I know they get knocked here -- but they *do* crank!
Anyway, I'm keeping them, for loud stuff when I'm rockin' (see below)).
- I live in Dallas. I visited Omni Sound, Preston Trails Audio and
Audio Concepts, all in Dallas.
- I only planned to spend around $500-800 (*only* ???). Let this be
a lesson to you: you can talk yourself into anything (oh, you should
have heard the rationalizations coming out of my mouth...I'm so
embarassed... It doesn't help when your "friends" (C.R. in particular)
say things to you like "Well, you better do it now, because you'll
never get to have something like that when you get married." Thanks.))
Now, armed with gobs of comments RE speakers (a favorite subject in
this newsgroup, I have (so) astutely noticed), I finally decided to go
looking. Based on your recommendations and a few others I had heard, I
decided to go listen. Below are the highlights, or those that I thought
I'd comment on....
* Apogee Stage - $2000
These are at Preston Trails Audio, north Dallas.
Knew I'd like but not love. Proved to be true. Not enough bass (at all),
though the detail in the high-end was *beautiful*. Still, with their
history of placement problems, not seriously considered.
* Apogee Centaur - $1495
Heard these at Preston Trails Audio. They are the latest and greatest
from Apogee, the first of a new "Centaurus" line of speakers. They
*are* hot. They merge an electrostatic ribbon with an 8" woofer in
a sealed enclosure. It's great sound...especially if you're 4' tall
or you walk around on your knees... :-) Really, they are outstanding
sonically, but VERY particular regarding its sound window, because if
you move outside of its rectangular "frame" of sound (very "framed" -
no spreading out sound), the highs and most of the mid-range just
disappears. Real distracting. Just moving two feet left or right of
the speaker (and about 8' in front of it) and the sound is gone. If
you stay in one place (right in the middle of the pair), everything's
ok (oh, and you should be sitting - 'cause the sound is framed vertically,
too (2' to 4' is best). Just too compromising, especially at that $$$.
* Vandersteen 2ci.
Couldn't find them. Rumor has it that the only way to get them around
here is from a guy that lives in Garland (Dallas suberb) who sells them
out of his apartment. Hmmmm. Several people told me this; none knew
how to contact him (then again, most of them wanted to sell me speakers!).
* Spica Angelus - $1200 (?)
After all that I had heard about these, I was ready to experience
something tremendous... About the only thing that struck me as
interesting was the shape of them. I did not like the sound nearly
enough to make me want them. No real bass, very "high". Lots of
detail, though. They just weren't it. Omni Sound has them.
* B & W 640 - $1600 (and some other B & W's -- the 500 and 600 series)
Preston Trails Audio has these. I wasn't impressed. Too "closed in"
to me ("boxy" I guess). The salesman thought they were the best thing
under $2000 you could buy. I didn't see it that way at all. They
kind of reminded me of my Cerwin-Vega's, which cost a total of $300,
except my C-V's have better highs ;-}.
* TCM3 - $495
These are Omni Sound's own brand. They are 2-ways, 1" dome tweeter
with 8" woofer. Heavy, solid cabinet (36" x 13" x 12"), ported. These
are hot. Very strong (but not exceptionally tight) bass. Best $500
I think you'd spend! Don't sound "boxy", either. My friend thought
I was nuts not to buy these...ok, I'm nuts. I think I am, too, when
I think I ended up spending $1000 more than this...oh, well.
* Theil 1.2 - $1100 (I think)
Omni sound carries Theil's, and though they don't push them, they seem
to sell quite a few (on the three occasions I was there, 3 Theil
sets went out the door...you figure it out... They really don't push!)
Impressive. The only things I didn't like were 1) they don't have the
bass that I love so much, and 2) Didn't have that "big" sound (oh, by
the way, I like *loud* music (and my mom and sister are both speech &
hearing specialists...oh, they have words about me...)). Didn't listen
to them very long, though, 'cause that damned salesguy just *had* to
connect those CS 2's ;-), and he shouldn't have done that, should he?
Actually, it was my own fault... "Oh, *those* are CS 2's? I've heard
good things about those...can we listen to them?" *I* shouldn't have
done *that*. But, I'm glad I did (lots of smiley faces inserted here).
* Theil CS 3.5 - $2500 (I think (Am I actually trying to convince myself?))
I couldn't believe these are the big brothers of the above...maybe
step-brothers...who had an abusive parent on the other side. I did
*not* like these at all. The bass was okay, but the mid and highs
sounded like hell (as others have described here - "harsh". They
were right. Take me back to the CS 2's!).
* Theil CS 2 - $1650 (I paid $1596 with tax and everything else)
I love them more every time I play them. So there. Omni Sound let
me bring them home to audition over the weekend (I gave them my credit
card number). I got four friends to come over Saturday night and we
played every CD we could ever want to hear, till 4 in the morning. Oh
yeah, my neighbors *love* me (especially when I play my drums - but
that's another story). Anyway, we had a blast (and got pretty drunk).
The next day -- and sober -- I continued the audition, and was still blown
away. Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Hear" - you ought to hear *that* on
these! (In particular, if you wanna hear *low* bass, check out "Welcome to
the Machine" at mid (or high!) volume. Man, you'd think there was an
earthquake!!!) Finally, at midnight, I reluctantly disconnected them,
as I had to return them Monday morning. I went to bed wondering how in
the hell I could afford these... ;-}
Well, I took them back. At noon, one of my friends called me and said
he wanted to buy my big-screen TV, if I still wanted to sell it....guess
what I said.... So, Monday night I had new speakers! Now, for the even
better part: Omni Sound knocked $200 off ("Gee, I reeeaaaalllyyy want
them, but I just *can't* afford it..."), *and* they *gave* me a brand
new set of 15' PC-Squared speaker cables ('cause I told them I needed
*some* sort of cables ;-} ). He said they sell for almost $200; I don't
know what they cost, but I thought that was pretty damned nice! Anyone
know anything about these cables? What do they *really* cost (hey, he
was giving them to me -- I didn't want to insult him by saying "hey, what
are these things *really* worth? !!)
Just a little bit more. The speakers look as good as they sound (I got
the teak). They are heavy, and *solid* (Theil uses a lot of internal
bracing and very thick cabinets - 1.5" or something like that). They
come with spikes (both rounded and pointed sets), which I'm using (the
pointed ones) to anchor them through my carpet; they really helped the
bass. Placement is pretty easy. I have them set up as recommended,
about 9' apart; no toe-in worked best for me. They do sound best away
from any walls. They're kind of standing out rather obviously in my
living room (about 2' clear of any wall/objects on all sides), but they
sound best there, look gorgeous, and hey, if I'm going to spend $$$
like that, I want everyone to see them, anyway!
What I don't like? These speakers are so revealing, in every thing
played through them (even different songs on the same CD/album), that
I keep going over and re-adjusting the bass, treble and (variable)
loudness settings (no, I do NOT want to hear anything about using the
loudness control ;-) -- I like it). Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm
imagining things (anyone else experience this??); my friends say it
sounds great, so why do I keep jumping up and fiddling with them? I
dunno; I swear I can hear the differences. By the same token, I hear
things on *every* CD I've played (that I am very familiar with) that
I have never heard before...and it's sooooo gooooooood! That's why
I love these speakers; you don't miss a thing!
If you're going to go speaker hunting, I also (!) have some great CD's
picked out that you might want to consider using as references. After
playing about 60 CD's through these speakers, I have a few CD's that
really show off a speaker (the CS 2's in particular). You might already
have some of these CD's, but didn't think of them as being "reference"
material. I think they're a good set of very different stuff, both old
and new (that, I discovered, really made a difference in some speakers
I listened to; older recordings would sound pretty lousy on some of them
(the B & W's especially)). Oh well, you didn't ask, but you get:
Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Elton John - Captain Fantastic...
Supertramp - Crime of the Century
Supertramp - Breakfast in America
Robbie Robertson - Robbie Robertson
The Stranglers - Dreamtime
Jane Siberry - The Speckless Sky
Don Henley - Building the Perfect Beast
Don Henley - The End of the Innocence
The Eagles - Hotel California
Donald Fagan - The Nightfly
Roxy Music - Avalon
Colourbox - Colourbox
Jackson Browne - The Pretender
Elvis Costello - King of America
New Order - Brotherhood
New Order - Technique
Prefab Sprout - Two Wheels Good
Thomas Dolby - Aliens Ate My Buick
Steely Dan - Aja
and, of course...
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
ONE MORE THING (I Promise!):
Something I do want to say -- unsolicited, BTW -- is how impressed I
am with Omni Sound; they have the *best* listening environment of any
store I have been to (Southern Cal. and D/FW area anyway). The place is
great -- like a big, 7 bedroom house, with systems to meet your needs
in every room. The first time I went there, I probably looked pretty
scroungy; Saturday afternoon, drinking beer for hours beforehand, just
mildly interested in actually buying anything anyway, and in we come....
shorts,tank-tops, unshaven, you picture it.... But they never blinked.
They showed us (me, anyway -- my friend didn't give a damn anyway...I
guess they figured that out....) everything we wanted to see/hear. And
they aren't pushy or snobby at all. So, if you're in the Dallas/Ft. Worth
area, check 'em out. Ask for Tim Miller - and tell him I sent you! (Hey,
I might buy a new CD player or something...and maybe he'll give me a break
on the $$$ ;-} ). Anyway, I have no association with Omni Sound except
being a real happy customer!
They carry, among other things, Wadia, Jeff Roland, Sony ES stuff, Onkyo,
PS Audio... They give you a 5% discount if you pay cash (or check).
That's IT!!!!!! (I know you're glad -- if you're still reading all this!)
Thanks!
Bill Perkins
--
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Bill Perkins | "The sheriff didn't mean anything."
IEX Corporation, Plano, Texas | "He hit me!"
...!iex!perkins (or) perkins@iex.com | "Well, I'm sure he meant to do *that*."