steinj@uunet.UU.NET (Jacob Stein) (02/07/91)
THE STORY A recent burglary and the perverse economics of insurance replacement have led me to own a set of components that I ideally might not have chosen otherwise. What was burgled: Sony 605 ESD cd player, PS Audio 4.5 pre amp, B&K ST 202 amp Celestion SL6S speakers Straightwire Music Conductor interconnects and speaker cable What I have at the moment: CAL ICON cd player Mod Sqad Deluxe Line Drive Adcom 555 MK II amp Thiel CLS2 speakers junky interconnects Straight Wire MR8 speaker cable that was lying around The CAL ICON and Mod Squad Line Drive are givens. The Adcom was considered equivalent to the B&K and the "insurance replacement cost" offered to my insurer was hard to beat. I could have cashed out, but at this price I could easily see selling it a couple of months down the road. The speakers were the hardest component to figure out. (I had gotten to the point with my old system where I listened to the music and was not seriously considering any upgrades, The burglary is in a sense an opportunity, but I couldn't muster the energy to properly audition things.) Of the speakers I listened to, the Thiels and EPOS ES-14s were both attractive. Although I think that the EPOS would have just let me get into the music and be done with it, the imaging and bass on the CLSs, and the insurance pricing, which made the CLS2s less expensive than the EPOS, got the better of me. HELP I am in general satisfied with the system, with the exception of the to be expected occaisional relentlessness of the sound through the CLSs. While I realize that any reasonable set of interconnects will help the situation, I also realize that relentlessness is the sort of the thing that only becomes more apparent as time spent with a system increases. Therefore I am considering three options and would like to solicit some advice. 1) Keep all the components and look for interconnects and speaker cable to help improve the situation. Any suggestions here? Has anyone heard Has anyone heard the Lindsay-Geyer 4-40 interconnect that Dick Olsher was ga-ga about in the February Stereophile? 2) Swap out the Adcom and get a different amp that would be a better match. Any suggestions on a more compatible amp? I would like to stay in the under $2,000 bracket. A recent posting here suggests that the Aragon 4004 might be a good choice. Anyone out there have any experience with the new B&K monoblocks? Advise on cabling would still be appreciated given this option. 3) Swap out the Thiels. I don't think I can ask for much advice here. I would just have to lug alot of stuff home to see how it sounded.
tarr-michael@CS.YALE.EDU (michael tarr) (02/08/91)
I have a set of Thiel CS2's with the following gear: Belles 150 Amp Sonographe Preamp Sony X33ES CD player MIT 330 interconnects I have never had a problem with the harshness or brightness that some have reported with the Thiels. My best guesses are: (in order of my perception of correctness) 1. Use of an active preamp. Passive boxes just don't cut it in most cases (see recent letter from CJ in back of stereophile). Everyone I know with a passive has been much happier when they moved to an active line stage. 2. Belles Amp. In side by side comparisons with the Adcom (MK I), the B&K ST-140, and a Hafler, it toasted all of them. Everyone who listened (about 30-40 gnurds in my dorm at MIT) agreed that the Belles was by far the best sounding. A steal at $600. Also everyone I know that has listened to a Belles before buying an amp has ended up with a Belles. 3. MIT 330's. They are reputed to roll off the high end a bit, giving a more mellow sound. I don't know about that, but I found them to be extremely neutral in the midrange compared to cables of equivalent cost. I have a friend with CS2's and a B&K ST140 and a PS Audio 4.6. He too is quite happy and has not complained (so far as I know) about overly bright or harsh sound. By the way the Sony X33ES was an insurance replacement for a recently stolen CD player. It has an amazing soundstage. But too many annoying bells and whistles. At least the display can be turned off. -- ************************************************************************** * Michael J. Tarr Department of Psychology * * tarr@cs.yale.edu Yale University * **************************************************************************
kling@ICS.UCI.EDU (Rob Kling) (02/11/91)
Hi ... I've recently experimented w/an Adcom 545 & monoblock B&K St140s's w/2 speakerr systems that I own, Monitor Audio 952's & KEF 85's. The Monitor Audio's are somewhat bright & lean when compared w/the KEF's, but also much more detailed .... I was surprised to find that the B&K ST140 monoblocks sounded much better w/both speakers than the 545 ... which tended to sound leaner .... w/the KEF, the B&K also had tighter bass than the Adcom. I feared that the B&K would sound bloated w/the KEF; not so. Overall, the B&K's had a fuller sound & much better balanced tonally; the 545 sounded a bit light & tilted "up" in both cases. I ended up moving the Adscome to an office system w/small monitors where they sound nice ... it's not a bad amp, just not as good in some key ways. I was surprised & impressed by the differences in favor of the B&K ST140 monoblocks. /R
tmajni%sequent.uucp@RELAY.CS.NET (Tim Majni) (02/11/91)
MY SYSTEM EXPERIENCES Before I comment on your story I must tell you my own experiences. I had a old stereo purchased in college 15 years ago which had become very tired. I wanted to get some better stuff so I purchased a surround sound system which I sold within three months to get better stuff: Mission PCMII CD player (a tad better than Icon) Adcom GFT-555 tuner Adcom GFP-555 preamp Adcom GFA-555 amp Theil CS1.2s Cheap wire and interconnects After six months of listening and building my CD library I wanted to improve my sound so I tried all sorts of new equipment at home. Six months after that I have definite opinions and solid experience with all sorts of high end gear, and my system has changed some in the process: Mission PCMII CD player --place holder for Theta Digital Processor-- Adcom GFT-555 Quicksiler Audio preamp Threshold S200 amp Theil CS1.2s Bradley Audio Interconnects Cheap monster wire (plan OCOS upgrade) I refuse to buy gear just because it is expensive. I must hear a major difference in sound before I consider upgrading, and it must be a reasonable value (i.e. I won't buy a $12K STAX processor). RECOMMENDATIONS I believe in the stereo hierarchy: 1. Source 2. Preamp 3. Amp 4. Speakers You can't get good sound unless you have a good signal. The speakers are the last in the chain. They are important, but the old addage of GIGO (garbage in garbage out) still applies. Speakers will soon be the cheapest part of my stereo, with source the most expensive. The CAL ICON is a great piece for the price point (~$750). Better does exist but it will cost a lot more. I plan to upgrade to the Theta DSPro Basic when I can afford it (~$2000). It was absolutely stunning when I demoed it at home. The detail and sound stage was simply the BEST I've ever heard. The difference was as big as when I replaced the Adcom with the Threshold. You now have a piece that is better than the SONY you had and with sound hard to beat by a large margin without something like a Theta upgrade. Yes folks, it blew the Wadia X32 away as well. I really liked the MS Line Drive Deluxe when I demoed it, but when I opened the top and saw just wire, pots, switches, and the $1000 price tag I balked. The build quality and clarity was good but dynamic range was lacking. I used a Superphon CD MAXX (~$400) with a passive circut until I could afford the tube driven Quicksilver. It's very open, airy, dynamic, tank-like build quality, and a bargin at ~$1600. IMHO Theil make one of the most revealing speakers on the market. My baby CS1.2s continue to show major improvement when upgrading electronics. The CS2.0s are the same caliber with better bass extension. The CS2.0s are reported to be more sensetive to system matching than the CS1.2s. I have home demoed the CS3.5s and they exhibit electronics dependancies in spades. Unlike so many box speakers Theil sound much better with better electronics. They shine with really good electronics, but can be mediocre to disappointing with mid-fi electronics like Adcom and B&K. With the front end CD, line control, and speakers that you own you can demonstrate this very easily by home demoing a Levinson, Threshold, Melos, Counterpoint, Aragon, or any other ~$2500 amp. You should demo the B&K monoblocks as well. I've never heard them but have read good things about them. Now about wires. This is the last area for me to improve my system. The better the system, and the closer to the hierarchy you adhere, the more noticable difference wires will make. Until I had the Quicksilver and Threshold wire would have been a waste of money. Seth Bradley brought some of his new interconnect wires (~$200) over to my house for a show-down with wires from some of my favorite dealers in the are. We had the likes of Monster Interlink 500 ($35), MIT PC Squared ($75), MIT CVT ($350), and Madrigal interconnects ($150). I was skeptical about spending more that $50 for a pair of interconnects before this test. The cheap wires from MIT and Monster where blown away by the more expensive wire. There was oodles more clarity and information present. This was easily measured by using a test CD for sound stage imageing. All the better wires demonstrated around a %30-%40 wider sound stage which easily extended well beyond the speakers. The Bradley wires came out on top, with the Madrigal a close second. When music was played, the biggest difference I noticed was the tonal character like rolled off highes, or more bass. More information seemed to be present with Bradley wires, but the others sounded good too. (They should for that kind of money!) Bradleys wires where in my opinion more neutral, and therefore better suited for my tastes. I think this is because these wires where the best sheilded (with plated mylar and tin plated copper) and have the lowest capacitance from his use of teflon dialectric. The connectors on the Bradley wire are the heavy locking type that none but the most expensive ($600-$1500) cables use. These connectors embarressed all the other wires I tried because they were so flimsy and prone to breakage. This is important because I demo so much that I'm always taking something apart. I have heard from others who have demoed Bradley cables that they sound better than Kibers. Demoing is the final analysis for me, and thats how it should be for you too. Happy Demoing: DEMO, DEMO, DEMO...