wmartin@ALMSA-1.ARPA (Will Martin -- AMXAL-RI) (12/04/85)
>>But why should one want to integrate manned and unmanned space travel? >For the same reason we don't have unmanned cargo planes (or trains, or ships). >It makes good sense to have people there in case something goes wrong (which >is, if anything, *more* likely in a complex activity like spaceflight than >in rail transport). I realize that this is straying quite far off the subject, but the above comment brought something to mind, and I wonder if anyone else recalls details about this: I have a vague recollection of a plan for automated and unmanned ocean-going *sailing* ships to haul bulk cargo which has no requirement for speedy delivery or is in any way perishable (like ore or raw materials, for example). These would use a variety of sensors to feed data to the automated controller, and high-tech sail designs (like rotor types or other advanced concepts) to provide a method of moving quantities of material at very low per-ton cost, there being no fuel expense or sailors' wages to pay. I believe I saw drawings of proposed configurations and some brief description, but nothing more. Does anyone else recall this concept? Anyone have any info on further research or development being done for this, or was it a pipe dream that got no farther than a blurb in Popular Science or the like? As far as the safety hazards of such an unmanned device, I don't recall seeing any discussion of that aspect. There would be some, of course, but one would think that radio-controlled overrides or shut-offs and the like would reduce the risks to an acceptable level. (Of course, the controlling computer could always go mad and try to rule the world... Where have I seen *that* script before? :-) Though this certainly isn't "space" per se, it is the same sort of high-tech concept discussed by those interested in space, and the problems of designing such an independent automaton are related to those of working with planetary exploration robots and the like. And there isn't any other ARPA group that would be better for discussing this. (USENETters can forward copies to net.rec.boat if they want. :-) Will Martin ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin
space@ucbvax.UUCP (12/05/85)
Have you been reading net.rec.boat? I started a discussion there a few days ago about the construction of cheap sailboats that might fit your application. The main objections to my proposal (non-rigid hull made of cloth, rope, and hollow plastic beads towed by a parafoil kite) have involved steering and high seas. A cargo ship would not require a direct route or a smooth ride. Mark Thorson (...!cae780!weitek!mmm)
ems@amdahl.UUCP (ems) (12/12/85)
>>> But why should one want to integrate manned and unmanned space travel? >> For the same reason we don't have unmanned cargo planes (or trains, or >> ships). It makes good sense to have people there in case something >> goes wrong > > I realize that this is straying quite far off the subject, but the above > comment brought something to mind, and I wonder if anyone else recalls > details about this: I have a vague recollection of a plan for automated > and unmanned ocean-going *sailing* ships to haul bulk cargo which has no > requirement for speedy delivery or is in any way perishable (like ore or > raw materials, for example). I saw this described in Popular Science at the height of the oil crisis. > These would use a variety of sensors to feed data to the automated > controller, and high-tech sail designs (like rotor types or other > advanced concepts) to provide a method of moving quantities of material > at very low per-ton cost, there being no fuel expense or sailors' wages > to pay. I believe I saw drawings of proposed configurations and some > brief description, but nothing more. Does anyone else recall this > concept? > The Japanese made a demonstration ship or two using partial sail power. I saw an article on them in a local (?) paper when first launched. The idea was to use sail assist rather than 100% sail. One does not eliminate the whole crew, just the additional crew which would be needed to man the sails. Last I heard the trials were going OK, and fuel consumption was significantly lower. Then we entered the era of the Oil Glut and not a peep have I heard since ... Economics uber alles? > As far as the safety hazards of such an unmanned device, I don't recall > seeing any discussion of that aspect. It was expected that there would be a small crew on board for purposes of maintenance, crisis control, and safety. There would still be a captain sailing the ship. If you have never been adrift in a sailboat with no wind, the current pushing you toward the rocks, and the engine being reluctant to start; you havn't been sailing! -- E. Michael Smith ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.