[rec.audio.high-end] Spica Angelus

maxc1158@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Greg Penetrante) (05/03/91)

Carl Writes...>
>Finally, does anyone have any comments on the Spica Angelus speakers?
>Listsened to them recently, three-dimensionality, imaging, was
>very good, tonal balance a bit cold, disembodied. Source was cd, with Adcom
>amplification, which may explain this. 
>

 Welcome to the world of CD players.  Most of them can sound somewhat cold and
disembodied. I don't know of any CD player, short of an outboard D/A converter,
that could be really hitting LP's where they hurt. The Adcom could also be a bit
on the cold side when coupled with the Spica Speakers. I've auditioned that
particular combination and Adcom's don't mate well with Spicas.. A Tube amp or
the  Muse Model One Hundred would be a better match for a Spica.

donald@CSI.COM (Donald Maffly) (05/06/91)

In article <11684@uwm.edu> you write:
>
>
>Finally, does anyone have any comments on the Spica Angelus speakers?
>Listsened to them recently, three-dimensionality, imaging, was
>very good, tonal balance a bit cold, disembodied. Source was cd, with Adcom
>amplification, which may explain this. 
>
>Carl

I like the Angelus, alot, although I must confess that own a pair of TC-50's.  
I would tend to agree with how you described it:  imaging excellent, but a bit
cold.  The TC-50 on the other hand is much warmer through the mid-range,
though the imaging not as quite as good.

One reason I'll never buy an Angelus though, is that the bass is very
disappointing.  Better to go with TC-50's and perhaps add a sub-woofer 
later.   If you are serious about the Angelus, I saw a used pair
going for the unbelievably low price of $525 in the back pages of
Stereophile, recently.

-- Donald Maffly

rshapiro@arris.com (Richard Shapiro) (05/06/91)

In article <11716@uwm.edu> maxc1158@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Greg Penetrante) writes:
>
>that could be really hitting LP's where they hurt. The Adcom could also be a bit
>on the cold side when coupled with the Spica Speakers. I've auditioned that
>particular combination and Adcom's don't mate well with Spicas.. A Tube amp or
>the  Muse Model One Hundred would be a better match for a Spica.



I went through a number of solid-state amps to use with the Angelus
and was never altogether satisfied -- I *knew* I wasn't getting as
much out of them as I might. Finally, I settled on a hybrid amp: the
Counterpoint SA-12. I've been very pleased with the combination.  The
shrillness and relative thin-ness of cds is still there, but I'm not
sure it's really fair to blame the speakers for this.  With a good
analog front-end, the Angelus, driven by the Counterpoint, are
unrivaled at the price (which is why I bought them, of course).

The SA-12 is no longer made, unfortunately, and the successor was just
torn to pieces by Stereophile (for whatever that's worth).

tmajni@sequent.com (05/08/91)

In article <11821@uwm.edu> donald@CSI.COM (Donald Maffly) writes:
>
>I like the Angelus, alot, although I must confess that own a pair of TC-50's.  
>I would tend to agree with how you described it:  imaging excellent, but a bit
>cold.  The TC-50 on the other hand is much warmer through the mid-range,
>though the imaging not as quite as good.
>
>One reason I'll never buy an Angelus though, is that the bass is very
>disappointing.  Better to go with TC-50's and perhaps add a sub-woofer 
>later.   If you are serious about the Angelus, I saw a used pair
>going for the unbelievably low price of $525 in the back pages of
>Stereophile, recently.
>

I like the Angelus a lot as well.  My major complaint is not the same as
yours though.  WAF (wife acceptance factor) is quite low.  The local dealer
curses "the damn thing" because only single guys buy it, and sure enough my
wife hated the things.  I did have a picture of them in my office which a
woman I work with commented on them as "sexy".  When I asked if she would
allow them to live in her living room she said NO!  Oh well, so much for
Spica Angelus.

I have a much more basic problem with the TC-50s.  They are too sensitive
to power overloading and can be easily damaged.  When the TC-50s are hooked
to small high quality amps like Naim or the baby VTL the image produced can
be hauntingly real.  Bass is a major problem with these units, but Spica
does make a subwoofer for them.

You should be able to get better bass from the Angelus though.  I have a
set of baby Thiel CS-1.2s that reportedly have the same problem.  They
are down 3db at 50hz and drop like a rock from there.  I have done several
things to get better bass response out of these speakers:

   1. Got a really good amp - replaced Adcom 555 with Threshold S/200.
      While Adcom is supposed to have good bass, it isn't nearly as
      strong or well defined as Threshold's.  Thiel uses Threshold
      for R&D as well as demo as CES shows - there is a reason.

   2. Put in a dedicated 20 amp line from breaker box to plug with 12
      guage wire.  Most homes have 15 amp lines with 14 guage wire.  This
      increased the power available to the amp, which cleaned up the lows
      even more.

   3. Put in good speaker wire.  I am now using 8 guage silver plated
      copper with teflon dielectric, twisted with shrink tubing over the
      entire length.  Connectors are crimped and silver soldered.  This
      increased the damping factor which improves tightness of bass.  I
      thought bass was less with these wires at first, but close listening
      showed that is was more defined, and not as flabby.

   4. Upgraded the power supply in my CD player.  I found a 15 volt
      computer power supply with tons more current than the player will
      ever use.  This increased the imaging and added a lot more definition
      and weight to the bass.

I am sure that I'm getting more out of these Thiels than 95%+ of the owners.
First off, most would not hook $1250 speakers to $6000 of electronics and
wire.  Better electronics can make a major difference.  The Threshold was
the most dramatic of these changes, with the other three being equivalent
in effect.  None of these changes where subtle.  The last three didn't cost
more than 2% of the Threshold (each less than $60).

I am currently working with a local speaker designer to come up with a
passive woofer to mate with the Thiels.  It will probably be an offshoot
of the Aria 10 design by Joesph DiAppalito for Focal, the speaker driver
manufacturer.  Initial testing shows that these puppies will be 3db down
at 22hz!  I plan to have the highs roll off in the 60hz to 80hz range.
Getting the crossover right is going to be the most difficult part.  The
port will most likey have to be disabled in the Thiels with some sort of
plug to get melding of the two right.

Tim Majni

kevins@eng.auburn.edu (Kevin Sullivan) (05/11/91)

In article <11949@uwm.edu> tmajni@sequent.com writes:
>I like the Angelus a lot as well.  My major complaint is not the same as
>yours though.  WAF (wife acceptance factor) is quite low.  The local dealer
>curses "the damn thing" because only single guys buy it, and sure enough my
>wife hated the things.  I did have a picture of them in my office which a
>woman I work with commented on them as "sexy".  When I asked if she would
>allow them to live in her living room she said NO!  Oh well, so much for
>Spica Angelus.
>

Hmm.  My wife thinks they look great.  (She's an artist, so I guess that 
means they look great, or they "work".)  They've been standing about three 
feet into our living room for almost two years.  I love these speakers and 
I'm a bass player.  The bass on these speakers doesn't rattle the walls but 
it's _very_ controlled and I like that almost as much as the imaging.

>You should be able to get better bass from the Angelus though.  I have a
>set of baby Thiel CS-1.2s that reportedly have the same problem.  They
>are down 3db at 50hz and drop like a rock from there.  I have done several
>things to get better bass response out of these speakers:
>
>   1. Got a really good amp - replaced Adcom 555 with Threshold S/200.

How about Aragon?  Someone recommended the 8008 to me but I haven't heard 
it on my speakers.  They also said a new amp was coming out called Acuris (sp?) 
that was similar to but less expensive than the Aragon.  Anyone know about 
this?

While I'm asking for advice, I'm looking for a new CD player.  I've 
listened to the NAD 5000 and CAL Icon but in different cities on very 
different components.  Has anyone compared these?  Opinions?

>Tim Majni

Kevin Sullivan