KLUDGE@AGCB1.LARC.NASA.GOV (09/19/90)
I recently auditioned the Blue Point, and I can't say I really like it. It has excellent separation and imaging, but it's just too dry for my personal taste. I always liked the sound of the Grados, and I have been trying to find a place to audition one of the high-end Grados, since I am getting annoyed with the poor high-frequency tracking on my cheaper one. I've also been told that I should look into the Rega cartridges, though I have not found a local dealer. Remember to send your donations to S. Dorsey Audio Fund 173-7 Merrimac Tr. Williamsburg, VA. 23185 --scott
carl@vega.iii.com (clifford) (05/02/91)
Sumiko Blue Point:
What are your experiences with the Sumiko Blue Point Oyster catridge?
I know it's gotten very good reviews from the Absolute Sound ("A Pearl
of a Cartridge"), but others have occasionally referred to it on the net as
being overly forward or bright in tone. I'd like to get a broader summary of
views, if possible.
Associated equipment: VPI jr turntable w/PT 5 arm, lead balloon turntable
stand, Van Alstine Super Pas 3 preamp, tweaked Dyna Mk III's (updated caps);
Cambridge Ensemble speakers (small living room and two active children).
At the moment, cartridge is the Grado ZTE+1.
ET2:
At some point I'd probably like to upgrade the jr to the full MK III. I don't
know much about the ET2 air bearing arm, but have seen a fair number of
references to it on the net and in the audio press. Used, they seem to go
for about $450.00+. Comments?
Finally, does anyone have any comments on the Spica Angelus speakers?
Listsened to them recently, three-dimensionality, imaging, was
very good, tonal balance a bit cold, disembodied. Source was cd, with Adcom
amplification, which may explain this.
Carl
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/*-------------------------------------------------------------------*/bill@verdix.com (William Spencer) (05/03/91)
in article <11684@uwm.edu>, carl@vega.iii.com (clifford) says: > Sumiko Blue Point: > What are your experiences with the Sumiko Blue Point Oyster catridge? > I know it's gotten very good reviews from the Absolute Sound ("A Pearl > of a Cartridge"), but others have occasionally referred to it on the net as > being overly forward or bright in tone. I'd like to get a broader summary of > views, if possible. I heard one with Fried R/4 speakers and, yes, it's bright. Probably would be good with my speakers though. This was on an Ariston table & AQ arm. Still, it was smooth not peaky, but unbalanced. Warning to those who might be considering this cartridge: Due to the mount it doesn't fit all arms, especially those with semi-enclosed headshells such as the Grace 707. This might be a consideration if you're buying a good cheap used 'table and would like to use this cart. (a warm fuzzy feeling about the previous owner not abusing the arm is good when buying used tables also!). _In Terms of Music_ also praised this cartridge. They point out that the P-mount design was used to allow an "off-the-shelf" headshell to be used for low cost. It requires an unusually large headshell. BTW, good magazine. > Associated equipment: VPI jr turntable w/PT 5 arm, lead balloon turntable > stand, Van Alstine Super Pas 3 preamp, tweaked Dyna Mk III's (updated caps); > Cambridge Ensemble speakers (small living room and two active children). > At the moment, cartridge is the Grado ZTE+1. With tubes it might not be too bright. The Cambridges might not work. How's it now? The Grado is bright -- for a MM cartridge only. I have a Dynavector 10X4-II which seems fairly mellow, but it's hard to compare with different 'tables. Mine sounded very good with the Frieds though. While I'm at it, I just recently added foam isolators under my no suspension 'table. This requires a heavy plinth design such as my Kenwood slab. The isolation keeps the mass of the 'table from reacting with the stand/table and producing bass resonance. Bass is tamed. Strongly recommended if this applies to you. I just used ordinary foam rubber and some old coasters. Any _experienced_ suggestions on better isolators? Rubber pucks would certainly _look_ better. Cones made it worse. Bill Spencer
hull%janus.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Christopher Hull) (05/03/91)
In article <11684@uwm.edu> carl@vega.iii.com (clifford) writes: > >Sumiko Blue Point: >What are your experiences with the Sumiko Blue Point Oyster catridge? >I know it's gotten very good reviews from the Absolute Sound ("A Pearl >of a Cartridge"), but others have occasionally referred to it on the net as >being overly forward or bright in tone. I'd like to get a broader summary of >views, if possible. > The Blue Point is initially quite bright. It does become more tame as it breaks in. It also requires a low VTA setting to achieve good sound. Chris Hull Hull@janus.berkeley.edu
rogerk@sco.COM (Roger Knopf 5502) (05/08/91)
In article <11684@uwm.edu> carl@vega.iii.com (clifford) writes: > >Sumiko Blue Point: >What are your experiences with the Sumiko Blue Point Oyster catridge? >I know it's gotten very good reviews from the Absolute Sound ("A Pearl >of a Cartridge"), but others have occasionally referred to it on the net as >being overly forward or bright in tone. I'd like to get a broader summary of >views, if possible. I have a Blue Point mounted in a Rega 2 table and arm feeding a PS Audio 4.6 preamp. The 4.6 tends slightly towards brightness but I have not had this problem with the BP. In general I think it is quite neutral and accurate. While I have heard cartridges reproduce soundstage better, they were generally 10 to 15 times more expensive. This makes the BP a bargain in my eyes. >At the moment, cartridge is the Grado ZTE+1. I had its predecessor model in my Rega for about 3 weeks. Now, you want to talk about forward and bright.... In your case I would take maybe 10 seconds to think about upgrading. Not to poop on the Grado too much, Talking Heads never sounded so good as when I had the Grado in, but the rising high end was quite unforgiving on records that also had that fault. When evaluating other's opinions on a cartridge, keep in mind what other equipment they were using. The BP happens to work well with my setup but its faults may have coincided with faults in someone's system. In that case, its a no-go but thats not necessarily relevant to your situation. In article <11719@uwm.edu> hull%janus.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Christopher Hull) writes: > >The Blue Point is initially quite bright. It does become more tame as >it breaks in. It also requires a low VTA setting to achieve good sound. I read that Sumiko claims that the design of the tip is one relatively indifferent to VTA. -- Roger Knopf "Step 1: Get a Guru." SCO Consulting Services -mikeeb@sco.COM uunet!sco!rogerk or rogerk@sco.com 408-425-7222 (voice) 408-458-4227 (fax)
carl@vega.iii.com (Carl Jones) (05/14/91)
Thanks to all on the net for the email on the Sumiko Blue Point cartridge. Here's a summary of the replies: >From: sbhattac@sales.stern.nyu.edu (Shankar Bhattacharyya) Subject: Re: Sumiko blue point Organization: NYU Stern School of Business I have not heard the Blue Point. However, I do have one minor comment on its geometry. It is a P-mount, and they provide you with an adapter so that you can attach it to a standard mount headshell. That makes it a bit long for some arms. You can sometimes not mount it in the space available. Just a caution. It may work just fine for your arm. Also, depending on how much you know about aligning cartridges, and how much room for adjustment you have on the armboard, you may be able to do quite a lot, even if there are some initial problems. - Shankar >From: stiv@rice.edu (david n stivers) Subject: Re: Sumiko blue point Organization: Rice University In article <11684@uwm.edu> you write: > >Sumiko Blue Point: >What are your experiences with the Sumiko Blue Point Oyster catridge? >I know it's gotten very good reviews from the Absolute Sound ("A Pearl >of a Cartridge"), but others have occasionally referred to it on the net as >being overly forward or bright in tone. I'd like to get a broader summary of >views, if possible. I've not noticed that it seems especially bright, but then the top of my speakers (Magnepan SMGa's) is a bit rolled off. I have/had one on a Linn Basik deck. (This deck is currently at my fiance's, having been replaced by a WTL.) The Sumiko replaced a Grado ZTE+, which made of _huge_ difference. The Sumiko tracked _much_ better than the Grado on the Linn, and sounded better even on material that the Grado didn't have problems with. >From: anders@autopsy.csd.sgi.com (Greg Anders) Subject: Re: Sumiko blue point Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA I have used a Sumiko Blue Point in my Thorens TD145MkII for about a year now with good success. The table is equipped with an AudioQuest PT5 arm which mates nicely with the Blue Point. Observations: The blue Point offers much better detail, openness and transparency than the Grado Signature cartridges I have used in the past. The bass is full and tight with no detectable upper-bass or midrange heaviness. Although I would not characterize the sound as foreward, it throws a good deep soundstage on Jazz and Classical recordings; live sessions will feature soloists that jump out of the wall at you which I believe is more evidence of depth than forwardness. The only quirk I have noticed regards the softness/hardness of the sound, which I find is directly related to the type of mat the turntable has. With a rubbery mat, the sound is more "clinical" than with a softer felt mat. I think felt and other soft material mats sound more euphonic.........actually approaching "muddy". I therefore use a standard rubber mat and have chosen a VTA which places the back of the cartridge a little lower than parallel to the mat. This results in a highly detailed sound that balances the hardness/softness factor..... Bottom line: Having spent much more for other cartridges in the past I think the Sumiko is an exceptional value. The moving coil discipline is superior to MM in realism, detail and spaciousness. Add to that the overall balance of the sound and the price and it a steal. >From: osborne@software.org (Skip Osborne) Subject: Re: Sumiko blue point I just got one, and am delighted with it. Some of my reasons may be relevant to you. The system is an AR-ES1 turntable with a version of that PT-5 arm (black, instead of AudioQuest's silver, no other visible differences). The cartridge I replaced was a Grado, of older vintage than yours (G+(?), ~$130 a long time ago). The rest of the system is Quad amplification and Quad ES-63s; oh, and a good cheap JVC1010 CD player, as a sanity check on the records. I recommend it too. To the point: the upper mids are in fact a little forward, but everything else is A Whole Lot Better. In particular: the depth of image is immense, dropping well back behind my wall on records that have the information (like DDs, 60s RCA, and mid/late 70's Decca and EMI). The base is good to the limits of my speakers, and very very tight, the detail tells me there's much more information on my records than I knew, yet the overall effect is quite smooth (which I had thought was contradictory). The brightness/forwardness is mild and may be the truth - I'm not sure. The Sumiko is quite musical, whatever. On my former setup, CDs sounded all around better, and to Hell with the little magazines. The Sumiko evens up the score. In my system, LP now has more depth of image, more smoothness - CD equal bass, equal detail, bigger dynamics, much more convenience. All in all, I'm saving a lot of money: the off-the-main-path classical music I favor is very cheap at used LP stores (~$2-3!), compared with $14-15 for equivalent CDs. So, obviously, I recommend it. >From: chowkwan%priam.usc.edu@usc.edu (Raymond Chowkwanyun) Subject: Re: Sumiko blue point Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA In a Technics SL-1600 II, I found the Sumiko to be lacking in detail. It's no fun having to grope into a soundstage looking for instruments. I switched back to Grace F9 Ruby which was regarded as outdated back in 83. It was a relief to have the instruments just presented to you again. Nowadays I use a SME V, TNT, Benz. Very musical. >From: Rick Karlquist <rkarlqu@sc.hp.com> Subject: sumiko bluepoint I bought a Sumiko bluepoint and found it was indistinguishable from my Shure V15-III when listening on a homebrew phono preamp (TL072's) driving Stax Lambda Pro's. The Shure is certainly not a bright cartridge so therefore the Sumiko isn't either. The Shure M91E *was* a bright cartridge by comparison to the V15 series, for example. Rick Karlquist rkarlqu@scd.hp.com >From KLUDGE@agcb1.larc.nasa.gov Tue May 7 04:33 PDT 1991 Subject: Sumiko The Sumiko sounds very, very dry, but it's otherwise not bad. The Grado cartridges all have a very lush, warm sound, which I love, but they also seem to have major tracking problems. If you are in that general price range, you might look into the Adcom cartridges. I'm using one and it's not a religious experience, but it's got a good compromise between the two. (I also have a number of Decca London cartridges which I have been importing, but I am waiting until I get a new tonearm set up before giving them a serious listening test). All these cartridges have nice imaging, although I would say the Decca was the best and the Grado the second best. --scott Subject: Sumiko Blue Point >From: mhk@racer.hq.ileaf.com I have a VPI HW-19 mk II accrilic (with the mk IV TNT platter on order) with an ET II arm with home-brew surge tank, and a Blue Point. First the cartridge. I like it. Probably nothing better in the sub $400-$600 range (I'm thinking of the AQ 404, Signet OC9, Talisman Boron). I Don't find it harsh at all, infact I'd say its pretty smooth and listenable. Bass is plentiful, but not very detailed, and I find the dynamics so-so. Imaging is wide and open, and depth ok. For a $100 you can't go wrong. I like it better than my old Signature 8 ($200). * * * * END OF SUMMARIES * * * * Carl carl@vega.iii.com Innovative Interfaces, Inc. Berkeley, CA Phone: 415-644-3600