[sci.virtual-worlds] VR Protocols.

veenu@mtfmi.att.com (Veenu R Rashid) (09/08/90)

In article <LOKI.90Sep4204822@marvin.moncam.uucp>, moncam!loki@relay.EU.net (Nev
er Kid A Kidder) writes:
> broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Bernie Roehl) writes:
> 
> >   One issue that I'd like to hear discussed is that of protocols.  Even for
> >   the simple system described above, it would be nice to have a standard
> >   way of passing information back and forth.
> 
> Do the already existing implementations use a well defined, extensible
> object representation that they are prepared to publish for the
> benefit of all, or are they all closed systems?  If someone's already
> done it and it's extensible, we may as well use it.  If not, here is
> my thre'pence ha'p'ney.

[a lot of cogent and useful conceptual ideas deleted..]

> Looking at this, I'm inclined to think that a lot of it must have
> already been thrashed out by X people or Mac people.

I wouldn't hold my breath wating.  While a lot of the ideas behind object
representation in multimedia space have been developed by the Mac people,
any implementation on the Mac would be severely limited by its architecture.
The high cost of workstations prohibit them from widespread use, except as
specialized platforms.

A compromise can be reached, however, within the limits of existing hardware
and price/performance ratios.  Amiga computers are already capable of some
aspects of virtual world synthesis.  It has a well-documented multimedia
environment along with the bandwidth/processor power to implement one with
a facsimile of real-time response. (X-Windows !!?! Real-time?? Get serious.)

With the addition of a mass-market peripheral such as X-Specs 3D it is possible
to implement a 3D viewing environment with little effort.  The advent of the
Dataglove has produced third-party suppliers to provide the necessary interface
at an affordable cost.  The prototypical virtual-reality system which I'd like
to develop would interface the Dataglove to manipulate data in n-space which
could be viewed within 3-dimensions with an XSpecs3D system.  Connections with
other virtual-reality systems could be achieved after the demonstration of a
single system which would take care of virtual reality needs.

> 
> >   So, anyone for designing a protocol?  The key is, of course, extensibility
.
> 

A protocol would be necessary for the description of data in n-space.  Further
additions would include manipulation capabilities in abstract space.  This
subsystem would accept input directly from the dataglove, mouse, keyboard,
whatever.  The represention of the data could be projected on either 2 or 3
dimensions depending on whether the user chooses to buy an XSpecs3D or not.
(However for the main purpose of implementation, I would like to assume all
users would be using a 3D viewing system of some kind.)  The data can be
moved around to show different aspects to the user.  Preferably individual
applications could be geared toward using a high-level language for data
specification, while the rendering and display would be performed using
the VR system based on a simple protocol.  This would speed up any future
implementations based on communication.

Such a system is capable of being implemented today.  Specifically, I plan
to use the Amiga system as a platform to implement a version of a sample
virtual-reality environment.  Faster platforms such as workstations have
an advantage in terms of speed and power, but suffer from lack of availability
and high cost of expansion (peripherals).  I would be interested in hearing
from Amiga programmers/hackers who would be interested in working on such
an application.


> Well, it's a bit naff, but perhaps someone can give some constructive
> criticism of it...
> --
>    Harry Fearnhamm, ,---.'\   EMAIL: loki@moncam.uucp
>     Monotype ADG,  (, /@ )/          ...!ukc!acorn!moncam!loki
>     Science Park,    /( _/ ') VOICE: +44 (0)223 420018
>      Cambridge,      \,`---'    FAX: +44 (0)223 420911
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Ruze
AT&T Bell Labs,
Holmdel, NJ

mail:   veenu@mtfmi.att.com
home:  (201) 219-1848

jgsmith@BCM.TMC.EDU (James G. Smith) (09/14/90)

I don't know how many of you are aware of MUD's (Multi-user-dungeons), but
they've been around a little while, and they are the first use of multi-user
VR's that I've seen (besides games).  I just recently "discovered" them, so
I'm not an expert (read: don't ask me technical questions), but MUD's actually
do several of the things which have been talked about recently in this newsgroup
.
The interface (for the present) is text.  So when you enter a room you get a
text description of the room and a mention of objects in the room.  When you
"look" at an object, you get a longer description of that object (one written
by the person who created that object.)  It's all very fascinating, especially
when comparing Vinge's book (True Names ...) with what's actually happening. My
main question is did Vinge know about MUD's or did those who designed MUD's
know about Vinge?

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