[sci.virtual-worlds] Reference to MUD newsgroup

BKort@BBN.COM (Barry Kort) (11/10/90)

Several students have posted requests for information on VRs for use in 
term papers.

Since the high-tech end of VRs is largely inaccessible to most people, you 
might want to explore and write about the low-tech end of the genre.  I am 
talking about text-based VRs, otherwise known as Multi-User Dungeons 
(MUDs).  These network-based cyberworlds are accessible to anyone who has 
access to the Internet.  So if you can read and post to Netnews, you can 
probably gain access to MUDs as well.

MUDs encourage extemporaneous creative writing and imagination, much like 
old time radio.  For information on getting started, read net.rec.mud.  

Barry Kort (aka Moulton)
Visiting Scientist
BBN Labs
Cambridge, MA

broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Bernie Roehl) (11/21/90)

[MUDs keep intruding on our consciousness.  As I told Bernie, in preparing
to post the following high-quality posting, so far as I know, there is no
systematic study of MUDs now taking place.  Until there is, I continue to
doubt their efficacy for explaining or exploring true virtual world
experiences.  However, the Group Mind may have something to say about this.
Do YOU want more discussions of existing online virtual experiences here,
or should they be dealt with in the specific conferences set up to discuss
particular applications (like MUDs)? -- Bob Jacobson, Moderator]


In article <10922@milton.u.washington.edu> BKort@BBN.COM (Barry Kort) writes:
>...MUDs.  These network-based cyberworlds are accessible to anyone who has 
>access to the Internet.

True!

>So if you can read and post to Netnews, you can 
>probably gain access to MUDs as well.

Not *quite* true... a lot of people receive news over a uucp link, rather than
being on the Internet directly.  Anyone who's not sure can just try giving
the command "telnet"... if it exists, you're fine.  If not, you're (probably)
out of luck.

>For information on getting started, read net.rec.mud.  

Actually, it's rec.games.mud (at least, on our site!)

Having followed discussions in both this group and rec.games.mud, I can suggest
that people look at MUDs for some ideas of how virtual reality might be set up
and administered.  You might also discover some of the problems you run into;
let me explain, and perhaps give sci.virtual-worlds people a quick intro to what
a MUD is all about.

Anyone who's played a text-based adventure game (e.g. Adventure or Zork) has
a pretty good idea of what a MUD "feels" like.  The great innovation that
makes a MUD different from Adventure or Zork is that multiple players can be
wandering around the same environment simultaneously, communicating with each
other and working together to solve puzzles, make discoveries, or just chat.

The second important innovation (which I believe is credited to James Aspnes)
is the idea of *extensibility*.  The players can not only wander around exist-
ing rooms, but can build new rooms, create new objects, and generally work to
create a richer, more complex environment.

This is where the biggest problem facing MUDs originates; since a MUD grows
more sophisticated and complex as people from all over the world build and
create, it also outgrows the ability of the machine it's hosted on to handle
the huge of amount of data involved.

I'm in the process of designing a distributed MUD, that would be implemented
across a group of machines rather than a single machine; I'm also keeping
in mind the kind of extensibility needed to allow a visual (rather than
strictly text-based) model of reality.

An important aside: virtual reality already exists; it's our *means of
accessing it* that is growing more sophisticated.  Consider the following
examples of virtual reality:

        - the net
        - telephone "party lines"
        - MUDs
        - Internet Relay Chat

In all cases, people from all over the physical world can come together in
a "virtual" world to communicate, discuss and work together.

All of these have certain basic elements in common, and all of them provide
(in some form or another) access to a "reality" that exists independently of
the physical world.

Adding a visual component to that interaction will make it much more effective,
and much more productive, that any of the above examples.

-- 
        Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
        Mail: broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu OR broehl@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca
        BangPath: {allegra,decvax,utzoo,clyde}!watmath!watserv1!broehl
        Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

andrew@calvin.doc.ca (Andrew Patrick) (11/23/90)

The moderator writes:

>[MUDs keep intruding on our consciousness.  As I told Bernie, in preparing
>to post the following high-quality posting, so far as I know, there is no
>systematic study of MUDs now taking place.  Until there is, I continue to
>doubt their efficacy for explaining or exploring true virtual world
>experiences.  However, the Group Mind may have something to say about this.
>Do YOU want more discussions of existing online virtual experiences here,
>or should they be dealt with in the specific conferences set up to discuss
>particular applications (like MUDs)? -- Bob Jacobson, Moderator]

I think MUDs do have a place in discussions on virtual worlds.  First,
the social/conversational aspects of virtual environments are going be
very important for any good representation of reality (be it artificial
or real), and this is being explored in the MUDs.  Second, one area
where VR can be applied and commercialized is entertainment, and people
might pay for the ability to interact with other people in virtual
situations (look at CompuServe and Minitel).  Again, this is being
explored in the MUDs.



-- 
Andrew Patrick, Ph.D.       Department of Communications, Ottawa, CANADA
               andrew@calvin.doc.CA    andrew@doccrc.BITNET
        HDTV:  higher resolution, improved colour, wider screen,
            "sit-com" reruns.  What's wrong with this picture?

andrew@calvin.doc.ca (Andrew Patrick) (11/23/90)

On Nov 22,  7:47pm, Human Int. Technology Lab wrote:
} Subject: Re: Reference to MUD newsgroup (Was Re: Virtual Reality)
| But *how* is "the ability to interact with other people in virtual
| space" being explored in MUDs?  Systematically, or just anecdotally.
| I wonder whether D&D has much advanced our ability to design virtual
| worlds.
| 
| Bob J.
| s.v-w
}-- End of excerpt from Human Int. Technology Lab

Anecdotally, of course.  But sometimes in new fields anecdotal
evidence is all that you have.  This does not make the information
necesarily invalid or uninteresting.

I think D&D has told us what people like.  Who would have thought that
people would pay for an nearly-empty box containing a very small
booklet telling you how to sit and imagine your someplace else.




-- 
Andrew Patrick, Ph.D.       Department of Communications, Ottawa, CANADA
               andrew@calvin.doc.CA    andrew@doccrc.BITNET
        HDTV:  higher resolution, improved colour, wider screen,
            "sit-com" reruns.  What's wrong with this picture?

jwtlai@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Jim W Lai) (11/25/90)

In article <11599@milton.u.washington.edu> andrew@calvin.doc.ca
(Andrew Patrick) writes:
>I think D&D has told us what people like.  Who would have thought that
>people would pay for an nearly-empty box containing a very small
>booklet telling you how to sit and imagine your someplace else.

Television has offered non-interactive virtual worlds of nearly-empty
content.  Or did you mean adolescent power-fantasy?

>Andrew Patrick, Ph.D.       Department of Communications, Ottawa, CANADA
>               andrew@calvin.doc.CA    andrew@doccrc.BITNET
>        HDTV:  higher resolution, improved colour, wider screen,
>            "sit-com" reruns.  What's wrong with this picture?

And even worse, game show reruns.  The Wheel of Fear--er, Fortune in HDTV?