hlab@milton.u.washington.edu (Human Int. Technology Lab) (01/06/91)
Is it feasible to run a small VR setup off of a computer such as the Amiga? I wouldn't see why not, but maybe I'm not well informed on the subject. I always hear about it being done on huge supercomputers. --- QuickBBS 2.66 (Reg) * Origin: I.J.C.R. BBS & B'nai No'ach [Ft.Worth, Texas] (1:130/49) -- Darin Arrick - via Fidonet node 1:130/49 UUCP: ...!merch!ijcr!Darin.Arrick INTERNET: Darin.Arrick@ijcr.fidonet.org
madsax@milton.u.washington.edu (Mark A. DeLoura) (01/07/91)
> > Is it feasible to run a small VR setup off of a computer such as the >Amiga? I wouldn't see why not, but maybe I'm not well informed on the >subject. I always hear about it being done on huge supercomputers. >--- QuickBBS 2.66 (Reg) > * Origin: I.J.C.R. BBS & B'nai No'ach [Ft.Worth, Texas] (1:130/49) > >-- >Darin Arrick - via Fidonet node 1:130/49 >UUCP: ...!merch!ijcr!Darin.Arrick >INTERNET: Darin.Arrick@ijcr.fidonet.org > I guess that would depend on your definition of VR. Certainly it is feasible to get a pair of Haitex X-SPECS, and attempt to create a pseudo-VR which has only the stereoscopic view; and it might even be possible, with the left-over cycles, to get some sort of stereo sound going, but the refresh rate is going to be something awful. And you won't have the best part, which is the human-computer interaction of being able to physically move around, and the computer updating your views based on the new position/orientation information obtained from the gloves and/or suit. It just takes too much processing power to do the rendering of the images you will see. I suppose, given a fully blown out Amiga system, you might be able to get something to work, with refresh rates of ~10fps and limited polygons. But writing the software to interact with will be an incredible pain. Especially considering the Amiga's programming environment. (IMHO.) Granted, it does seem as if the only way to eventually set-up a VR network would be to have the information travelling to each user be general enough so that each "node" can determine the level of explicitness which the user sees. That is, person A has a slow system and can only see blobs at a decent refresh rate, while person Z has Super-Zippy XBM Model 4000, which can render 500K polygons at 60Hz with 16-channel stereo sound. Someone is going to have to come up with standards for the data travelling over that network. I sure hope it isn't *BM. :P =============================================================================== Mark A. DeLoura madsax@milton.u.washington.edu University of Washington "It's better to play one note and mean it, than play zillions of scales and not mean it." -Mike Oldfield
jcs@crash.cts.com (John Schultz) (01/09/91)
In <13838@milton.u.washington.edu> hlab@milton.u.washington.edu (Human Int. Tech nology Lab) writes: > Is it feasible to run a small VR setup off of a computer such as the >Amiga? I wouldn't see why not, but maybe I'm not well informed on the >subject. I always hear about it being done on huge supercomputers. Absolutely. You'll need at least a 25Mhz 68030, with 32 bit memory. I've developed a system that will be available RSN. The display is 320x200x4 LC-Stereo Shutter, sound is four channel D/A (two stereo pairs). The system has been successfully linked to Fake Space Labs stereo BOOM viewer (head tracking, black and white crts). It even does anaglyph stereo (very inexpensive!). Worlds must be relatively simple in order to keep the frame rate between 15-30 frames/sec, as rendering is done with the 68030 (faster than the blitter). When the 34020 or i860 boards become available, much more detailed worlds will be possible with 30 frames/sec constant. Any other questions, feel free to ask. John
jcs@crash.cts.com (John Schultz) (01/09/91)
In <13862@milton.u.washington.edu> madsax@milton.u.washington.edu (Mark A. DeLou ra) writes: >> Is it feasible to run a small VR setup off of a computer such as the >>Amiga? I wouldn't see why not, but maybe I'm not well informed on the >I guess that would depend on your definition of VR. Certainly it is >feasible to get a pair of Haitex X-SPECS, and attempt to create a >pseudo-VR which has only the stereoscopic view; and it might even be >possible, with the left-over cycles, to get some sort of stereo sound >going, but the refresh rate is going to be something awful. And you >won't have the best part, which is the human-computer interaction of >being able to physically move around, and the computer updating your views >based on the new position/orientation information obtained from the >gloves and/or suit. It just takes too much processing power to do the >rendering of the images you will see. >I suppose, given a fully blown out Amiga system, you might be able to >get something to work, with refresh rates of ~10fps and limited 15-30 frames/sec is possible. >polygons. But writing the software to interact with will be an >incredible pain. Especially considering the Amiga's programming >environment. (IMHO.) I've written software with an analog joystick for input, as well as head tracking (using Fake Space Lab's BOOM viewer). A glove is simply more data. I'll probably be showing my system at SPSE in San Jose, Feb 24-Mar 1, for those interested in seeing a real, low-cost VR system. John
ron@vicorp.com (Ron Peterson) (01/10/91)
In article <6793@crash.cts.com> jcs@crash.cts.com (John Schultz) writes: > It even does anaglyph stereo (very inexpensive!). > Any other questions, feel free to ask. What is anaglyph stereo? Is it different than just creating two images using a standard perspective transformation from two slightly seperated points of view? ron@vicorp.com
akk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Andy Klingler) (01/11/91)
In article <6793@crash.cts.com>, John Schultz writes: > Absolutely. You'll need at least a 25Mhz 68030, with 32 bit memory. > I've developed a system that will be available RSN. The display is > 320x200x4 LC-Stereo Shutter, sound is four channel D/A (two stereo > pairs). Hm. Sounds like an A3000 :-) Can you supply some more information? (How is the software done; what data formats; additional hardware) [...] > does anaglyph stereo (very inexpensive!). Worlds must be relatively simple > in order to keep the frame rate between 15-30 frames/sec, as rendering > is done with the 68030 (faster than the blitter). When the 34020 or Wouldn`t it be faster to do the drawing with the blitter and the necessary calculations with the 030 at the same time? How many polygons can you draw? Andy --- Andreas Klingler akk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de If you have enough patience, everything can be simulated Marvin Minsky
jcs@crash.cts.com (John Schultz) (01/11/91)
In <14101@milton.u.washington.edu> ron@vicorp.com (Ron Peterson) writes: >In article <6793@crash.cts.com> jcs@crash.cts.com (John Schultz) writes: >> It even does anaglyph stereo (very inexpensive!). >> Any other questions, feel free to ask. >What is anaglyph stereo? Is it different than just creating two images >using a standard perspective transformation from two slightly seperated >points of view? Anaglyph: aka Red/Green, Red/Blue (Low/high frequency light filters), was real popular in the 50's (movies, comic books). Cardboard glasses with plastic filters cost pennies, and generating the image on the computer is also very easy. The end result is a "grey" scale color when seen through the filters (really a purple or yellow/green scale). The math is the same as other stereo techniques. John
jcs@crash.cts.com (John Schultz) (01/13/91)
In <14185@milton.u.washington.edu> akk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Andy Klingler) writes: >In article <6793@crash.cts.com>, John Schultz writes: >> Absolutely. You'll need at least a 25Mhz 68030, with 32 bit memory. >> I've developed a system that will be available RSN. The display is >> 320x200x4 LC-Stereo Shutter, sound is four channel D/A (two stereo >> pairs). >Hm. Sounds like an A3000 :-) It was developed on a 25Mhz GVP 68030. It has been run on 16Mhz 68020s, 33Mhz 68030s and the A3000. The graphics are slightly faster on the A3000 due to the 32bit chip ram, but overall the 33Mhz GVP is fastest. >Can you supply some more information? >(How is the software done; what data formats; additional hardware) The data format is custom, ASCII text. Conversion from other popular formats to come when funding becomes available. Additional hardware: X-Specs stereo LC glasses, CH FlightStick analog joystick, custom gameport adaptor, stereo audio system (any). I've got the PowerGlove, but have not hooked it up yet (don't have the serial hardware and passcode for raw data mode (it's copyrighted). I'll wait until a legal method becomes available for PowerGlove support). >> does anaglyph stereo (very inexpensive!). Worlds must be relatively simple >> in order to keep the frame rate between 15-30 frames/sec, as rendering >> is done with the 68030 (faster than the blitter). When the 34020 or >Wouldn`t it be faster to do the drawing with the blitter and the >necessary calculations with the 030 at the same time? Nope. The 68030 is much faster than the blitter for filling polygons. There is much waste in setting up the blitter to fill polygons, and the end result looks terrible (system routines re-outline the masks, and they are *really* slow). >How many polygons can you draw? As many as you like. Of course, frame rate is inversely proportional to polygon count. I can fly a simple jet with moveable rudder, stabilator, ailerons, retracts, etc, and simple terrain at 15-30 frames/sec stereo. Any venture capitalists, bankers, daddy warbucks, publishers, etc, please contact me for a demo. I'm located in sunny San Diego. John Schultz (619) 442-5880