cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) (02/19/91)
The appearance of new VW systems could take the form of the Cold Fusion debacle unless we exercise good judgment both in making claims and in critiquing them. Perhaps we should also promulgate some parameters for determining what is truly VW and what is something less or other than VW. While technical parameters remain important as a way of benchmarking systems, we also might want to employ more subjective tests in evaluating claims for new VW systems (e.g., how inclusive is the experience of being in the VW system?), as a virtual world is largely reconstructed in the mind of the beholder/participant. Any suggestions for parameterization? Bob Jacobson Moderator
frerichs@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David J Frerichs) (02/19/91)
In article <16662@milton.u.washington.edu> cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes: > >The appearance of new VW systems could take the form of the Cold Fusion >debacle unless we exercise good judgment both in making claims and in >critiquing them. Perhaps we should also promulgate some parameters for >determining what is truly VW and what is something less or other than [deleted] >Any suggestions for parameterization? > >Bob Jacobson >Moderator I think a good critique is sensory replacement. Does it replace your normal vision, hearing, etc.? If it replaces one or more of your senses, then it creates a virtual-reality (stemming from the fact that all realities are subjective). [dfRERICHS University of Illinois, Urbana Designing VR systems that work... Dept. of Computer Engineering Networked VR. IEEE/SigGraph _ _ _ frerichs@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _/_\__/_\__/_\_ frerichs@well.sf.ca.us \_/ \_/ \_/ ]
cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.CA (Chris Shaw) (02/21/91)
In article <16705@milton.u.washington.edu> d frerichs writes: >In article X keithley@apple.com (Craig Keithley) writes: >>While I believe in tantalizing your prospective customers, you've >>not answered the questions I need/want answered. > >First: let it be known that I am not a member of FVT, only a user of their >system. Also, information is withheld not for "tantalization" but for >legal protection. I must say that I don't believe in tantalizing the customer. I don't believe in vaporware or the tooth fairy either. Also, the best "legal protection" for patentable equipment is to keep your mouth shut. So right now, the readers of sci.virtual-worlds have to put up with Mr Frerichs' almost weekly content-free updates. So my question is, if you have nothing to say Mr Frerichs, why do you keep saying it? Besides, legal protrection from what? >The unit is not trying to compete with the "high-end" VR systems of today >($20k & up) but it is trying to bring an affordable VR system to the consumer. Very nice, but unsubstantial. What are the I/O devices? Powerglove? knobs? 3D joysticks? projection TV? Homebrew head-mounted display? Any 3D trackers involved? How do they work? etc.... >C libraries for world creation and control will be available for development. >These are then compiled and downloaded to the unit. (note: this is only for >development, once a world is created it is stored and manipulated on the >unit independant of any host, i.e. portable) Static polygonal objects downloaded into an execution machine. Manipulation restricted to position and location of objects. Otherwise, why do you need C libraries and the download procedure? This is more or less the definition of a video game. >As for performance, I can't give out specifics, but I can >say I regularly travel through a detailed virtual-world from >which I definitely get a sense of "being-there." So what? You can get that with Flight Simulator on the PC! Maybe you're easily impressed! >I am not withholding information to "lure" anyone to see it, I am just here >reporting what is going on at FVT. > >[dfRERICHS Well, it SOUNDS like you're being coy for no good reason. <Another article by D Frerichs> >I think a good critique is sensory replacement. Does it replace your >normal vision, hearing, etc.? If it replaces one or more of your senses, then >it creates a virtual-reality (stemming from the fact that all realities are >subjective). First off, I wouldn't be so hasty about accepting the "fact" of subjectivity. However, this criterion of "replacement" is too loose. A Walkman creates a virtual reality, but you wouldn't normally think of listening to ocean waves on a hypnosis tape as "Real VR". -- Chris Shaw University of Alberta cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.ca Now with new, minty Internet flavour! CatchPhrase: Bogus as HELL !
jcs@crash.cts.com (John Schultz) (02/21/91)
In <16662@milton.u.washington.edu> cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes: >The appearance of new VW systems could take the form of the Cold Fusion >debacle unless we exercise good judgment both in making claims and in >critiquing them. Perhaps we should also promulgate some parameters for >determining what is truly VW and what is something less or other than >VW. While technical parameters remain important as a way of benchmarking >systems, we also might want to employ more subjective tests in evaluating >claims for new VW systems (e.g., how inclusive is the experience of being >in the VW system?), as a virtual world is largely reconstructed in the mind >of the beholder/participant. >Any suggestions for parameterization? Sure. Use the Virtual World Turing Test. When the user can no longer distinguish "reality" from virtual reality, the device passes the test. Anything less is subVirtual, cartoonVirtual, spacedVirtual, etc. Most systems today (including mine) fall under the "cartoon" category. People are applying the term "virtual reality" to static images too (photo-realistic or not). Here are some classes: Graphics: Class 1: Static Images: 2D or 3D stereoscopic Class 2: Real-time 3D images on 2D screen Class 3: Real-time 3D images on 3D stereo screen Class 4: Real-time 3D images, head coupled with optics Sub classes include frame rate, color, and resolution. Sound: Class 1: Simple binaural stereo, no signal processing Class 2: Pinnae calibrated, signal processed- Users can located sounds in 3D (Can pass 3D sound Turing Test). Sub classes include sampling rate, bits per sample, and number of channels. I/O Devices:... I don't recommend using class numbers, but useful mnemonics (cartoon, photo-realistic, etc). This was just a quick on-line outline. Much more elaboration is possible, but I recommend keeping it simple and non-convoluted. Advertizements such as "subCartoon subTrueMotion superAural VR system" would translate to low rez, head-coupled/tracked system at 15 frames sec with excellent 3D sound. This is currently a state of the art description of systems used by VPL and NASA. Which brings up another category, lag time. Then there's input devices... and ... John
timm@yoyodyne.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren) (02/23/91)
In article <16953@milton.u.washington.edu> cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.CA (Chris Shaw) writes: [much much stuff concerning Dave Frerich's continual advertisements for a consumer oriented VR machine deleted]... Anyways, so we's can all shut up about it for awhile, I'm going to be at EOH and will provide the net with a summary of my impressions of this thingy. Maybe we can hold off discussion of it until then. ------------- Tim McClarren NCSA/UI