[sci.virtual-worlds] Virtuous Worlds

keith@pecan.cray.com (Keith A. Fredericks) (04/26/91)

Bob Jacobson writes:

> John Waldern was unmoved by the criticisms that his machine called forth
> the worst in human behavior and made a mockery of the technological
> promise inherent in virtual worlds systems.  He responded to these
> attacks by asserting that appealing to the market (in this case, to 
> teenage boys) is necessary to produce the revenues for more serious work.

> My own inclination is to call these systems devices of the Devil, but
> merely bashing technology doesn't get to the ideas and persuasions that
> leads to such aberrations.  How do you feel about the virtual wargames?

In the sense above, it should also be argued that
a mockery has already been made of the technological
promise inherent in television, computers, atomic fission,
and all kinds of stuff like that.

Wouldn't it be nice if advances in technology were not driven
quite so much by the market and human war instincts?

On one hand I don't like the idea of Nintendo rotting the brains of
the youth of the world.

But on the other hand, I, like many of my distinguished collegues,
became interested in computers partly because of fun with computers
shooting aliens for hours on end.

Demonic posession?  Maybe.

Will anyone argue that entertainment does not hold the highest
profit potential for Virtual Worlds systems?

-keith
--
Keith Fredericks, Cray Research Inc., 655F Lone Oak Dr., Eagan, MN 55121
       keith@cray.com        (612)MUD-KITY      Fax: (612)MUD-KLYX

dtj@sumac.cray.com (Dean Johnson) (04/27/91)

> On one hand I don't like the idea of Nintendo rotting the brains of
> the youth of the world.

I totally disagree with the "Nintendo rotting the brains..." statement.
Watch a 6 year old play nintendo and see the amount of information that
he/she can assimilate, maintain, and infer from, not to mention the dexterity
and concentration aspects. You look at many of those same 6 year olds 
graduating from high school and they can't read and can barely tie their
own shoes. This is from a meat-grinder educational system that teaches
kids to conform and not think. As one of my professors said, you learn to
"Puke in the right post holes". Kids that think and explore are ridiculed
and called "geeks". Teachers are "mental janitors" that remove "bad things"
and do little to instill "good things". Of course, I don't mean to say that
every teacher is bad or that teachers are even to blame, it is a problem
with the system.

> But on the other hand, I, like many of my distinguished collegues,
> became interested in computers partly because of fun with computers
> shooting aliens for hours on end.

This isn't specifically a computer trait. I have yet to have a chemistry
teacher that didn't get into chemistry through blowing toilet off the wall
by flushing sodium, or starting railroad bridges on fire by throwing sodium
in the river. "Blowing Shit Up" (virtually or in reality) is intrinsicly 
interesting.

> Demonic posession?  Maybe.

Probably, just ask any parent or SO trying to get someone away from a
computer.

> Will anyone argue that entertainment does not hold the highest
> profit potential for Virtual Worlds systems?

Perhaps we can make *real work* entertaining and thus increase productivity.

-- 
        -Dean Johnson
         Software Berserker/Rabid-Protyping Specialist
         Tools, Libraries, and Commands Group
         Cray Research Inc.       Eagan,MN      (612) 683-5880

lance@motcsd.csd.mot.com (lance.norskog) (04/28/91)

In an article which I've managed to lose, a columnist in one of the
local free alternative newspapers wrote an article on her exposure
to a demo of 3D sound.  She immediately assumed that the military
interest in VR was not for training, but for torture.  She found
the experience of having voices placed around her with no physical 
referent very disturbing.  

The emphasis on experiencing designed worlds has a few driving forces
behind it. 1) There are few tools for designing worlds yet, so they
tend to be typed in coordinate by coordinate.  A slight exaggeration.
So, whatever the vendor has managed to get (and keep) running, that's
all you get at a conference.  2) We have in this culture become 
passive consumers of information, instead of active processors.
Our process of creating experiences for the masses, on television and
in Disneyland, has created a very pernicious atmosphere where the 
control of information media allows you to spread outrageous gibberish
and have millions of people behind you.  American politics has
become Disney-fied, and we've just fought a Nintendo war.  One of
the motivations for my work has to avoid having VR be Tele-Disney.

Lance Norskog

torg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis) (04/29/91)

In article <1991Apr28.215918.7140@milton.u.washington.edu> lance@motcsd.csd.
mot.com (lance.norskog) writes:
>
>
>and have millions of people behind you.  American politics has
>become Disney-fied, and we've just fought a Nintendo war.  One of
>the motivations for my work has to avoid having VR be Tele-Disney.
>
>Lance Norskog

Please elaborate on this last part.

Grant Davis
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