crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan) (04/25/91)
The game I'm asking about is called BattleTech. According to the moderator, (contrary to my impression) it is an arcade game (I had thought it was a building-sized getup, reminiscent of Photon). The radio article I heard specifically described fighting with other players instead of the machine. Would this imply some sort of LAN connecting player boxes in an arcade? Is "Joe's Pin-ball" really up to LAN management 1/2 :-)? Crispin ----- Crispin Cowan, CS grad student, University of Western Ontario Phyz-mail: Middlesex College, MC28-C, N6A 5B7 E-mail: crispin@csd.uwo.ca Voice: 519-661-3342 "If you want an operating system that is full of vitality and has a great future, use OS/2." --Andy Tanenbaum
resst11@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Ryk E Spoor) (04/25/91)
The BattleTech that I am familiar with is a role-playing game
with a HEAVY emphasis on combat as done by giant robots (a la
ROBOTECH). This is usually done on your typical tabletop with
models, but I could see that it could be adapted to a VR combat
setup rather well. But it sure wouldn't be much of an arcade
game.
Sea Waspportante@uunet.UU.NET (Tom Portante) (04/25/91)
There was a description of the Chicago Battletech Center in the
March 18 1991 issue of ComputerWorld (Vol XXV No. 11). (p.20)
From the description, the Center is a pretty big place (4000 sq
ft) containing a number of player cockpits. You strap yourself
in, flip a switch, and, to quote:
"You and your opponents are in command of Battlemechs, not
so much a tank as an H.H. Wellsian nightmare: a 30-foot
tall, walking robot containing a human driver."
Cockpit graphics are supported by a couple of Motorola chips and
the connecting LAN is Arcnet.mark@cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) (04/26/91)
In article <1991Apr25.080804.14090@milton.u.washington.edu>, Crispin Cowan <crispin@csd.uwo.ca> writes: > > > The game I'm asking about is called BattleTech. According to the moderator, > (contrary to my impression) it is an arcade game (I had thought it was > a building-sized getup, reminiscent of Photon). It is not an arcade game in the usual sense of the word. As far as I know there is only one installation of the game, and it requires a considerable amount of space (at least two rooms). You play the games in groups (I think it is $8 for 1/2 hour), there are several versions of the games, but the typical setup involves two groups fighting against each other. Each player (user??) has his own workstation that controls one of the robots in the game. All the workstations are sychronized over some form of local area network and you can communicate with the other player, form team strategies etc. It is quite impressive. The game itself was produced by Icredable Technologies under contract to the actual arcade that installed it. If you run into Tim Skelly at Siggraph or CHI he can fill you in with the details.
bmo1@ra.MsState.Edu (CrayDeath) (04/26/91)
NOTE: I am not an employee of FASA or the Battletech Center, and therefore nothing I say here is "official FASA information." However, I have been to the Battletech Center several times and have played the game, so I am familiar with some aspects of the setup. All information which I am posting comes from my own experience and from my conversations with employees and with other patrons. Battletech is a trademark of the FASA Corporation, and refers to both a science-fiction wargame/roleplaying system and a "virtual reality" game based on the wargame. This article refers to the latter. crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan) writes: >The game I'm asking about is called BattleTech. According to the moderator, >(contrary to my impression) it is an arcade game (I had thought it was >a building-sized getup, reminiscent of Photon). Calling Battletech an "arcade game" is a vast oversimplification, but what do you expect from someone who has probably never heard of "Virtual Reality" in any other connection? At the present, there is only one Battletech instal- lation in operation (although they may be interested in opening other franchises). The Battletech Center is located in the North Pier shopping center in downtown Chicago, near the Navy Pier. While hardly a "building-sized getup," it is not just a few machines set up in an arcade with other games either; they have a trained staff on hand to make reservations, answer questions, maintain the simulators, etc. The Center consists of a large room containing sixteen simulators (each slightly larger than the average arcade cockpit-style game) and the staff-used computers which set up 'mech assignments, simulator conditions, etc., as well as waiting and observation areas and the reservation/ merchandise counter. Each simulator unit is a cockpit of a thirty-foot-tall walking tank called a battlemech ('mech for short). The cockpit contains two screens (one for front view and a secondary screen usually used for radar), a throttle and two foot pedals to control movement (DO NOT attempt to steer with the joystick), a joystick with three buttons used to aim and fire weapons, and a lot of buttons and rocker switches to control various options (which trigger fires which button, infrared on/off, etc.). The displays are controlled by Amiga graphics chips. The simulators are divided into two groups (Alpha and Omega) of eight cockpits each, with a different game in each group. The simulation for each group is controlled by a main computer. The staff can set different options for each game: which 'mechs the players are using, starting locations, whether the game is played in teams or free-for-all, whether firing weapons builds up heat (not overheating is important), and various environmental conditions (rain, darkness, visibility, etc.). >The radio article I heard specifically described fighting with other >players instead of the machine. Would this imply some sort of LAN >connecting player boxes in an arcade? Is "Joe's Pin-ball" really up >to LAN management 1/2 :-)? The Battletech Center is NOT a mom-and-pop operation, and the simulators are not designed to be used in the corner arcade; maintenance and operation require a trained staff on hand. Send me e-mail if you would like any further (unofficial) information about the Battletech Center. >Crispin >----- >Crispin Cowan, CS grad student, University of Western Ontario >Phyz-mail: Middlesex College, MC28-C, N6A 5B7 >E-mail: crispin@csd.uwo.ca Voice: 519-661-3342 >"If you want an operating system that is full of vitality and has a >great future, use OS/2." --Andy Tanenbaum -- CrayDeath | mka Brennan M. O'Keefe | This mind intentionally left blank. internet: bmo1@ra.msstate.edu |
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") (04/26/91)
In article <1991Apr25.080804.14090@milton.u.washington.edu> crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan) writes: >The game I'm asking about is called BattleTech. According to the moderator, >(contrary to my impression) it is an arcade game (I had thought it was >a building-sized getup, reminiscent of Photon). > >The radio article I heard specifically described fighting with other >players instead of the machine. Would this imply some sort of LAN >connecting player boxes in an arcade? Is "Joe's Pin-ball" really up >to LAN management 1/2 :-)? It's a bunch of hopped-up Amigas in closets, essentially. Players fight each other in teams, have several viewscreens and roughly 200 gauges and controls to deal with. Check Amiga magazines over the past year for various articles on the BattleTech Game Center. -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2120 Skate UNIX or bleed, boyo... (UNIX is a trademark of Unix Systems Laboratories).
campbell@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Paul Campbell) (04/26/91)
It is in the North Pier Mall in Chicago. I was there during my last break from school. They have 12 'sit-down' style arcade machines running on TMS 32016 graphics processors strung up with Amigas and an IBM to do the networking. It was interesting but had some problems. The worst problem is that the targetting was done via a SWITCH joystick, so it took forever to get a shot lined up. Most of the time, you were better off steering via analog foot pedals (think in terms of tanks. It really doesn't use the differences inherent in mechs at all) to aim the guns. They pre-rendeered the graphics, but they were still only updating about 6-8 frames per second, so the movement was very choppy. For paying $6/12 minutes of play, I was not very pleased with the results (it's a do it once sort of thing) when I know very well they could have done better. It also seemed to crash often for various unknown reasons. I later found out that this is because they didn't eradicate AmigaDOS before they started the project. They also weren't even beginning to tap the potential of the 32016 processors. Beyond that, it was a lot of fun, but because of the controls, very frustrating.
hha@sage.cc.purdue.edu (hha) (04/26/91)
Hmm...as I recall, at least part of the setup includes Amigas...1000s I
think. But I believe they use the serial ports on the machines to talk to a
PC-clone and the bandwidth is always known, as is what's going across it. The
LAN management was early bound into the system. There will not be more than
4 players on each team, for now anyways, so they don't have to worry about
expansion.
Mind you, I have never gotten to play the game...spent better part of 4
hours wandering around >looking< for the place in Chicago...8<
John Dormer
dormer@bchm1.aclcb.purdue.edufrerichs@adsl.uwm.edu (dfRERICHS) (04/26/91)
In article <1991Apr25.080804.14090@milton.u.washington.edu> crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan) writes:> > >The game I'm asking about is called BattleTech. According to the moderator, >(contrary to my impression) it is an arcade game (I had thought it was >a building-sized getup, reminiscent of Photon). > >The radio article I heard specifically described fighting with other >players instead of the machine. Would this imply some sort of LAN >connecting player boxes in an arcade? Is "Joe's Pin-ball" really up >to LAN management 1/2 :-)? > Being from Chicago, I have been to Battletech. Basically, it is a networked set of simulators (battle robot simulators). The user sits in a networked control pod with multiple screens and a control panel. Once in, the computer starts you up and you are transported to the planet on which the battle is taking place. On your screens you see the images of the other networked player's robots as they appear relative to you. BTW, the graphics that represent the other users are playbacks of canned pre-calculated images on a dynamic background (they pre-calculate how the enemy looks from every possible viewpoint, store it, and scale it on playback for distance). They ease the real-time calculation requirements this way and it doesn't detract from the effect. The game consists, essentially, of destroying the other robots (what else in the vid realm) and appears to be entertaining. I haven't actually played it because the cost is prohibitive to a limited budget ($8 for 1/2 hour average) but there is an observing area overlooking the game room with screens showing each players viewpoint. Being in this area gives one a pretty good feel for the game, but I suppose it is no substitute for sitting in a pod. If anyone else has more input or corrections, please feel free to add your comments. [dfRERICHS University of Illinois, Urbana Designing systems that work... Dept. of Computer Engineering Consumer VR. Networked VR. IEEE/SigGraph _ _ _ frerichs@adsl.ece.uiuc.edu _/_\__/_\__/_\_ frerichs@well.sf.ca.us \_/ \_/ \_/ ]
plouff@kali.enet.dec.com (Wes Plouff) (04/26/91)
In article <1991Apr26.064805.10634@milton.u.washington.edu>, psocg!portante@uune t.UU.NET (Tom Portante) writes... > > There was a description of the Chicago Battletech Center in the > March 18 1991 issue of ComputerWorld (Vol XXV No. 11). (p.20) > > Cockpit graphics are supported by a couple of Motorola chips and > the connecting LAN is Arcnet. There's a fairly complete description in _.info_ Magazine, one of the issues early this year. The setup uses multiple Amiga computers per mech station, plus PC-flavored networking. The graphics power of these computers resides in custom chips, not their microprocessors. Another posting in this thread speculates that the machines are 1985-vintage A1000s. Come ON!! >From magazine articles and this newsgroup it is obvious that the BattleTech people are pushing the edge of what can be done with largely off-the-shelf hardware and well-designed software. IMO, BattleTech represents the general level of sophistication in commercial VR-like applications for the next two years. -- Wes Plouff, Digital Equipment Corp, Maynard, Mass. plouff@kali.enet.dec.com Networking bibliography: _Islands in the Net_, by Bruce Sterling _The Matrix_, by John S. Quarterman
jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) (04/27/91)
I've been to the BattleTech Center as well. Pretty much what has been described so far is accurate. I'd just like to add that the graphics were done on Amiga's. Also, after having reviewed the control options for a mech, I was kind of disappointed that it was really only a souped up tank battle game. There is the ability to move in any direction as well as the ability to independently aim your cursor at a target using a joystick; pretty much the same as what you'd expect in a good tank simulation. But since the system was designed so that new scenarios can someday be played on it, it seems they should have included additional input devices (like a power glove) so that someday the mechs can go into steel-crushing fist-to-fist combat; or at least they should have an additional set of joysticks that will allow something similar. The other thing that would be nice to have is some kind of hydraulic forced-feedback system which really shakes up the cockpit when you're hit. In general the BattleTech center was a good idea which makes economical use of most of the well established arcade technology; but I'd like to see more.... :^) Jason Leigh jal@cs.wayne.edu -- :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) ;^) O^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: :^) Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. (^: :v) Which of the two has the grander view? - Victor Hugo (v: :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v( $v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v:
laird@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU (Laird Popkin) (05/01/91)
In article <1991Apr25.210436.19988@menudo.uh.edu> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") writes: > >In article <1991Apr25.080804.14090@milton.u.washington.edu> crispin@csd.uwo.ca >(Crispin Cowan) writes: > >>The game I'm asking about is called BattleTech. According to the moderator, >>(contrary to my impression) it is an arcade game (I had thought it was >>a building-sized getup, reminiscent of Photon). >> >>The radio article I heard specifically described fighting with other >>players instead of the machine. Would this imply some sort of LAN >>connecting player boxes in an arcade? Is "Joe's Pin-ball" really up >>to LAN management 1/2 :-)? > >It's a bunch of hopped-up Amigas in closets, essentially. Players fight >each other in teams, have several viewscreens and roughly 200 gauges >and controls to deal with. > >Check Amiga magazines over the past year for various articles on the >BattleTech Game Center. Actually, Amigas are nor of a peripheral to the system -- an A500 is used in each pod to drive secondary radar displays. The main displays, simulation, and so on are all driven by custom graphics hardware in some flavor of PC clone, with a big fast server CPU (also a PC) in the middle running the simulation and keeping everything in synch. I wish I lives in Chicago so I could play... - Laird Popkin
lishka@uwslh.slh.wisc.edu (a.k.a. Chri) (05/01/91)
bmo1@ra.MsState.Edu (CrayDeath) writes: >Each simulator unit is a cockpit of a thirty-foot-tall walking tank called >a battlemech ('mech for short). The cockpit contains two screens (one for >front view and a secondary screen usually used for radar), a throttle and two >foot pedals to control movement (DO NOT attempt to steer with the joystick), >a joystick with three buttons used to aim and fire weapons, and a lot of >buttons and rocker switches to control various options (which trigger fires >which button, infrared on/off, etc.). The displays are controlled by Amiga >graphics chips. I have read in a couple places that the Amiga graphics are only being used for the map displays, with the main "front" view being generated by a custom graphics board using Motorola chips. I am not sure if the Amiga is controlling other aspects, such as figuring damage and movement. Also, I am not certain whether the Amigas are "stock" 8MHz models or have some sort of accelerator. Also, it is interesting to note that (according to a friend/graphics software developer who was there last week) the graphics are *NOT* 3d "vector" graphics generated on the fly. He (and fourteen other graphics developers who were there as well) thought that the graphics were composed of a series of "BOBs" (blittable objects, aka bitmap graphics) that were constructed into a view of a mech. In other words, portions (e.g. legs, arms, torso, etc.) of mech models are digitized at various distances and angles, and then the computer constructs the mech on-the-fly by piecing together the proper BOBs with the proper foreground priority. BTW, although the BattleTech simulators are intended mainly for enjoyment, it seems to me that this is a form of VR that is very popular. Other game simulators (car driving in Atari's Race Drivin', jet piloting in countless arcade and PC aircraft simulators, etc.) also provide a form of VR, with various levels of complexity. It seems to me that at this (early) date in VR technology, the successful VR-like implementations are game systems. This group has tended to focus on the heavy-weight VR systems of the future, but it might be enlightening to look at some of the current popular forms of VR to see what is likely to succeed in the "consumer market" and what is likely to fall by the wayside for lack of profit. .oO Chris Oo. -- Christopher Lishka 608-262-4485 It is not safe out here. It is wonderous, Wisconsin State Lab. of Hygiene with treasures to satiate desires both lishka@uwslh.slh.wisc.edu subtle and gross. But it is not for the uunet!uwvax!uwslh!lishka timid. -- Q
U13817@uicvm.uic.edu (05/21/91)
Folks, I have been playing Battletech since the simulator opened about nine months ago. All of the followups to "Questions about Battletech" have been either by one time players or people with partial information. I propose to get the information from the horses mouth, so to speak. Since I am a regular I have access to several of the designers, all of the staff and at least one of the Corporate heads. I will relay all these posts to them and post an Official Statement from FASA with in the next week. Stay tuned. --------------------------------- I know I am being Parinoid...but am I being Parinoid ENOUGH? -Unknown Origion Mike Gucciard U13817@uicvm.cc.uic.edu