[alt.callahans] Answers, and more doubt...

peterdur@microsoft.UUCP (Janelle Durham c/o Peter Durham) (01/17/90)

Janelle walks in from the gray day, orders a cup of tea, and walks over
to chat with Chris, who's looking a little forlorn. 

In article <11698@csli.Stanford.EDU> cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) writes:
>A quote from Steve:  "There are always rules.  They may just not be the ones
>  you're used to."

>The reason I say we're incompatible is that she takes offense at a lot of 
>behavior that I consider normal 
>
>I'm not sure why I'm saying all this.  I can't imagine how you could help
>unless you actually knew me, not just my typing.  But if you have any 
>thoughts on anything I've said, I'd really like to hear them.  

I don't really have advice about this particular relationship, but I do
have some thoughts about coping with people whose "rules" are
incomprehensible to you:  My sophomore year in college, I started out
the year rooming with someone I had met my first day at Brandeis who had
become the closest friend I'd ever had.  But by November, we could hardly
stand to be in the same room with each other, because there was so much
anger between us.  Our friendship was saved when she moved out of the
room... although it never has recovered quite to its previous level.  
The reason?  Different rules on what is normal, on what is personal 
space, etc.  Personal space (as in a physical space to call my own) 
isn't that important to me, and it was very important to her, and I
would do things that would greatly upset Barbara without even realiing 
that it was even vaguely possible that that would be the result.  For
example, one day I borrowed a shirt from her without specifically 
asking if that was OK.  I had borrowed this shirt so many times that
I figured it would be no problem to do so again... but she was very 
angry when she saw me later with it.  Several things like this happened.
I would have never done any of these things ahead of time if I'd realized
it would upset her.  But I honestly did not comprehend some of her rules
for what was right/wrong because they were so different from mine.  The
way we got past this was to never share living space again.  The only
non-distancing way I can think of to work past similar problems would
be to sit down for hours with someone, establishing rules of conduct,
and to constantly add to those as things went along.  This could help
a relationship to grow, but I kind of suspect that it would hit the
point that there were so many rules built up that there would be no
ground for honest communication.  Ina has apparently decided that
your rules are so different from hers that there is no point in
continuing to interact... and for you to push continued relations would
only be a violoation of her rules...  If she was being constantly 
offended by your actions, then it is probably a good thing she ended
it when she did.  Otherwise the anger would have continued to grow
until both of you were miserable...

I sigh wistfully, and go to collect my cup of tea from the bar where it
has been peacefully brewing, and go sit down at an empty table, spreading
applications around and preparing to fill them out.  I am getting so 
tired of job hunting... I couldn't get a job in my field (where I have
lots of experience) because I don't have a masters, so I'm applying
for random jobs now to last me till next fall, and none of them want
me either because I have one leg, and/or because I don't have any 
related experience (all that retail and restaurant experience I didn't
get because I was working in social services...)  UGGHH.

Before I start filling things out, I glance over at Unbeliever. Yes,
you can read _Callahans Lady_ before you read the others.  Spider's
books stand up pretty well on their own.  I understand why you're
having such trouble finding his books... I looked through twelve or
so bookstores to find a copy of _Mindkiller_... course, I picked up
an application at each before I left  :-)

- Janelle
...whistle while you write (the same damn things over and over!!) ... 

uucibg@swbatl.UUCP (3929) (01/19/90)

In article <11698@csli.Stanford.EDU> cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) writes:
>... But Ina says there was more to it, and this is where the 
>scary part comes in.  She maintains that I have been looking at her as 
>an object, and not respecting her as a person.  Given that (from her point
>of view) I was being rude to her and invading her space many times a day,
>I can understand why she felt that way.  But she says it's more than even
>that...
>After we'd been going out for a couple of weeks, we met her brother for a 
>few minutes, and he told her to break it off because she was already being
>hurt.  After we broke up, but before we stopped being friends, another 
>friend of hers saw us together for a few minutes, and without knowing 
>anything about me, or even that we had been going out, asked Ina if we 
>had been and told her that I was looking at her (Ina) as an object, and
>that she shouldn't get involved with me.

Some interesting questions come to my mind here:

1) Just exactly how did they know that you were treating her as an object?

2) Why didn't anyone tell you until later?

If she was interested in you enough to get into a relationship but not enough
to talk to you about problems, then that's her problem and not yours.
I know that doesn't help the pain.

You see, I just got off the phone with my ex-fiance.  After 4 months of very
sporadic contact, we had started doing things together as friends during the
last two weeks.  Last night we had a long talk about where we were going and
what we were each feeling.  There were no resolutions but I felt better because
things got discussed in an honest and open manner.  I thought she felt the same.
It seems I was wrong.  She now doesn't want to see me very often.  I don't
know about last night's conversation changed her mind.  It was a brief
conversation.  I also don't know what "not very often" means.  We will be
getting together this evening to talk.


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