XVDHMAK@VCUVM1 (Michael Kline) (01/12/90)
I had posted Ed Cole's quote, "Being a male is a matter of birth, being
a man is a matter of choice." I followed this with "If men were men as
Christ was a man, women would have no problems following them."
This was in conjunction with someone on BELIEF-L complaining that the
Bible was slanted against women claiming that women were always being put
down. I disagreed, and this little tidbit came into the conversation. Bill
didn't know what I meant by the quote and I'm trying to explain. Perhaps
some of you could also comment on "order" in the scriptures.
"Follows" was probably a bad choice of words, especially on a list like
BELIEF-L. I was talking in terms of being submissive and things like that.
I'm answering Bill's question here to get feedback, provide thought and the
like. If someone likes it they have my permission to forward it on.
My reply------------------------------------------------------------------->
What Ed Cole meant was that you are born a male, you can't do anything
about that. But, you have a choice to be a man.
When Ed Cole gave his statement he got a loud round of applause from
the women. Many of today's men are wimps. They don't know what they want or
where they are going. They are part of the "gimme, gimme, gimme"
generation, and have little or no concern for others.
Being a man like Christ would mean among other things, putting your
wife above yourself. As the Bible said, Husbands should give themselves for
their wife as Christ gave himself for the church.
Eph 5:21 - Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ, the
Messiah, the Anointed One.
22)Wives, be subject-be submissive and adapt yourselves-to your own
husbands as a service to the Lord.
23)For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the
church, Himself the Savior of His body.
24)As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in
everything to their husbands.
25)Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave
Himself up for her,
26)So that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing
of the water with the Word,
27)That He might present the church to Himself in glorious splendor,
without spot or wrinkle or any such things - that she might be holy and
faultless.
28)Even so husbands should love their wives and being in a sense their
own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself.
29)For no man ever hated his won flesh, but nourishes and carefully
protects and cherishes it, as Christ does the church,
30)Because we are members parts of His body.
31)For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall
be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.
32)This mystery is very great, but I speak concerning the relation of
Christ and the church.
If a man fulfilled his part, a woman would have little difficulty
fulfilling her part. As an extra point of view. We are all under subjection.
Notice the first verse calls for us to be under submission to one another.
What do I mean by "as Christ was a man?". I mean the part that Christ
knew Who He was and where He was going. He was in control 100% of the time,
maybe not so much looking as though He was in control, but knowing He was
in the perfect will of God, not the permissive will of God, mind you, but
the perfect will of God.
Before I get called some "holier than thou", I must state, I have NOT
made it. As I said in an earlier post, when I tell Linda "I'm trying.", she
tells me "You certainly are!".
In His Love,
Michael A. Kline, Sr. SSE
VDH, Technical Support
(804)786-1559
XVDHMAK at VCUVM1XVDHMAK@VCUVM1 (Michael Kline) (01/13/90)
I logged on last night with 69 files and got blown off our system.
When I logged on this morning, I had 28 files. I think this note
might have been lost in what ever happened here so I am sending
it again.
I had posted Ed Cole's quote, "Being a male is a matter of birth, being
a man is a matter of choice." I followed this with "If men were men as
Christ was a man, women would have no problems following them."
This was in conjunction with someone on BELIEF-L complaining that the
Bible was slanted against women claiming that women were always being put
down. I disagreed, and this little tidbit came into the conversation. Bill
didn't know what I meant by the quote and I'm trying to explain. Perhaps
some of you could also comment on "order" in the scriptures.
"Follows" was probably a bad choice of words, especially on a list like
BELIEF-L. I was talking in terms of being submissive and things like that.
I'm answering Bill's question here to get feedback, provide thought and the
like. If someone likes it they have my permission to forward it on.
What Ed Cole meant was that you are born a male, you can't do anything
about that. But, you have a choice to be a man.
When Ed Cole gave his statement he got a loud round of applause from
the women. Many of today's men are wimps. They don't know what they want or
where they are going. They are part of the "gimme, gimme, gimme"
generation, and have little or no concern for others.
Being a man like Christ would mean among other things, putting your
wife above yourself. As the Bible said, Husbands should give themselves for
their wife as Christ gave himself for the church.
Eph 5:21 - Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ, the
Messiah, the Anointed One.
22)Wives, be subject-be submissive and adapt yourselves-to your own
husbands as a service to the Lord.
23)For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the
church, Himself the Savior of His body.
24)As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in
everything to their husbands.
25)Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave
Himself up for her,
26)So that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing
of the water with the Word,
27)That He might present the church to Himself in glorious splendor,
without spot or wrinkle or any such things - that she might be holy and
faultless.
28)Even so husbands should love their wives and being in a sense their
own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself.
29)For no man ever hated his won flesh, but nourishes and carefully
protects and cherishes it, as Christ does the church,
30)Because we are members parts of His body.
31)For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall
be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.
32)This mystery is very great, but I speak concerning the relation of
Christ and the church.
If a man fulfilled his part, a woman would have little difficulty
fulfilling her part.
What do I mean by "as Christ was a man?". I mean the part that Christ
knew Who He was and where He was going. He was in control 100% of the time,
maybe not so much looking as though He was in control, but knowing He was
in the perfect will of God, not the permissive will of God, mind you, but
the perfect will of God.
Before I get called some "holier than thou", I must state, I have NOT
made it. As I said in an earlier post, when I tell Linda "I'm trying.", she
tells me "You certainly are!".
In His Love,
Michael A. Kline, Sr. SSE
VDH, Technical Support
(804)786-1559
XVDHMAK at VCUVM1