[bit.listserv.christia] This "saint" stuff is a bit perplexing.

BWA6067@TAMAGEN (01/16/90)

       I've watched the discussion of "sainthood" from the Catholic
       perspective with some interest up to now, but there is one
       thing that really perplexes me.  Maybe some of you could
       provide me with the missing Biblical pieces that I lack to
       complete the puzzle.

       For the RCC to proclaim someone a "saint," I've seen that the
       RCC must come to a consensus of some kind that the person in
       question, beyond a reasonable doubt, is heaven-bound.  As a
       result of such veneration, that person's soul is evidently
       invoked as an intercessor before God for the one who
       called on the saint.  OK, so far, so good.

       1.  What function does the saint serve that Jesus cannot?

       2.  What function does the saint serve that Jesus does not?

       3.  If a mortal man depends upon that saint for services of
       intercession, is assurance "beyond a reasonable doubt" really
       sufficient?  What criteria are used?  What if the consensus
       is in error?

       4.  Most importantly, if #3 is possible (that the church can
       determine the eternal destiny of an individual), how is it
       that mere men are able to pronounce what is essentially final
       judgement upon other men?

       It seems to me that the practical implications of the answers
       to those questions are enormous.  If error in the veneration
       of an individual is possible, then men who invoke that
       so-called "saint" as intercessors are potentially calling
       upon unrighteous souls to help them to have their petitions
       known before God.  That is a most precious privilege that God
       has given, and I would not want to entrust it to a
       potentially ineffectual intercessor.

       The answer to that problem, I would suspect, is that God, in
       His infinite mercy, would recognize the erroneous yet sincere
       nature of the call/prayer, and would choose to hear it
       despite the absence of the invoked "saint" (which is really
       not a saint at all).  If that is the case, then the logical
       result is that Jesus would be called upon to intercede.  Now
       I return to my first question, and couple it with the third
       one; what is the practical necessity of the "saint" if Jesus
       can and will intercede with NO possibility of error?  How
       does John 14:1-6 apply here?

       The other main problem is the great presumption of judicial
       power that is required for men to judge other men without
       error, if indeed that is part of the doctrine.  If men can
       judge other men without error, then men have assumed the
       judicial power that God has explicitly reserved for Himself.

       The easiest answer I can foresee is that whenever a person is
       considered for sainthood, God intervenes to assure that the
       consensus is the correct one.  Thus, the possibility of error
       is zero, and God has retained His infinite discretion in
       judging mankind.  But we have allowed ourselves to travel
       far, far, far beyond the Scriptures in order to validate this
       doctrine, and that frightens me.  In fact, we began far from
       the Scriptures and worked our way further out in order to get
       here.

       Is my reasoning correct?  Is the RCC so convinced that church
       tradition is equally valid as a source of God's word as the
       Scriptures themselves, to the extent that said tradition may
       actually SUPPLANT that which has been revealed in the Bible?

                                queue ball